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View Full Version : Some major problems??



balagast
08-03-2006, 03:47 AM
So my car started to make a clicking noise about 2 weeks ago, which i assumed was a bad valve or lifter etc, so i changed the oil, in hopes that it would shut up the valve, and it did not. The sound really hasn't gotten any worse in the past couple weeks, exept till tonight.

I got in the car, and right from the time i start it there is the usual slight clicking noise, but in addition, there is a lounder and lower pitched (almost clucking noise). I didnt get a good chance to look at it, but i believe that it is most likely rod knock (as i shit my pants).

How do i go about diagnosing the problem exactly...

As well, could this be the oil pump on its way out, and the engine just isnt getting enough oil circulation.

I shall leave the car home tommorow and get to vid of the engine after work.

All and any input would be great, this car is my baby :(

Hookecho
08-03-2006, 04:53 AM
post a sound pic if you can. if you think it is a rod knocking then try not to further aggravate it by driving the car. if you spin a bearing you'll be in for a whole lot of work.

needhelpnow67
08-03-2006, 06:17 AM
My engine Made the same noise before it spun a bering, dont drive it till your sure

balagast
08-03-2006, 04:04 PM
This problem is driving me nuts, so im going to probe the engine when i get home from work tonight (no way i'd do it during the day anyhow, its 105 degrees in philly right now). As well, i'm going to change the oil over to some 20W-50, even though i just changed the oil like 600 miles ago. Is this a good weight to try? As well, i read that cutting open the oil filter is a good way to check for metal shavings, if there is bottom end issues. How is the best way to go about cutting open the filter?

I plan on posting some vids/ the results of the probing of the engine later. Thanks for the help so far, and keep the comments a rolling, this has me really nervous.

balagast
08-03-2006, 05:01 PM
Another quick quesiton, i've never probed a car b4, but i've read up on it. Would it be ok to use a regular medical stethascope (I already own one of those), or are they different?

I've read to check the vavle cover, front and back and by each cylider; the block, head, and the oil pan. Is there anything else i should be looking for?

Hookecho
08-04-2006, 01:23 AM
a regular stethoscope will work just fine if you can put it against the side of the block.

balagast
08-04-2006, 01:51 AM
Ok so i probed around the engine with a stethascope, and i head the "ticking" noise on the valve cover. The noise became more prominent (both louder and deeper) on the left side of the valve cover (left as standing in front of the car, as in the passenger side) and as well it was louder on the back of the valve cover (towards the intake mani). As well, i checked out the oil pan and i didnt hear any lowerer pitched noises, but i did still hear the same ticking noise from b4.

I took some video of the engine running both from a cold start, and again after i let it idle up to temp. One other thing, there is an louder and more intermittent clunking noise (this is the one that was worrying me) you can hear is you listen closly for it.

Vids and Pics are at http://www.rpi.edu/~donalm/

In addition i took pics of the dizzy caps and plugs that i changed out about a week ago. What do you guys think of the hole burned though the center of the cap, and the condition of those plugs?

MCcelica
08-04-2006, 09:56 AM
I couldn't get the vids to work (Damn the mac compatability...or lack thereof more closely) but the hole in the dizzy cap looks like it's closer to 1&2. I'm thinking you're pushing a little too much voltage to one and two cause those plugs are def in some pretty tough shape. Looks like corrosion to me. One and two are passenger side of 3 and 4 too for what that's worth. My guess is that has something to do with it.

Hookecho
08-04-2006, 12:00 PM
sounds like a slight rod knock to me, but i can't be 100% without being in front of the vehicle. it would be a good idea to go ahead and drop the oil pan and check out the rod bearings and probably just replace them. it's a relatively easy job to do and the bearings will only run you about $35. you definately want to do this before you spin a bearing and blow a rod out the side of the motor.

if you have any more questions feel free to ask!

balagast
08-04-2006, 01:25 PM
Will that solve the problem, by replacing just the bearings, by dropping out the pan? i was under the impression that in order to replace anything on the bottom end, the entire thing had to be rebuilt and have the crankshaft machined (or at least polished).

balagast
08-04-2006, 01:29 PM
I couldn't get the vids to work (Damn the mac compatability...or lack thereof more closely) but the hole in the dizzy cap looks like it's closer to 1&2. I'm thinking you're pushing a little too much voltage to one and two cause those plugs are def in some pretty tough shape. Looks like corrosion to me. One and two are passenger side of 3 and 4 too for what that's worth. My guess is that has something to do with it.


What would be causing it to push more voltage? as well, when i pulled the plugs, three look really black (like the one in the photo), and the other one looked worn like the other plug. the one that wasn't as black was in the #4 plug hole (closest to the distributor), If that helps at all

toyotatuner
08-04-2006, 04:47 PM
takin out the crankshaft and all that isn't necessary when all ur goin to do is change the bearings. before u do that i would def. get a gameplan set up. read a lot about how to install them and everything. don't really want to be second guessin urself right before u start it back up. basically just drop the oil pan and then remove the rod caps.

as for the plugs lookin black...is it like soot? cuz that to me would seem like its runnin rich. and the extra spark could be the plugs gapped wrong or ignition coil messing up.

balagast
08-04-2006, 05:42 PM
I'm chalking the plugs to the fact that they a shitty plugs that have been in the car for a year... they were put in my car without my knowledge about a year ago, and i just found out like a month ago so i swapped them out.

balagast
08-04-2006, 06:28 PM
I have no reason not to pull the pan and take a look around, but b4 i do i'd like to get some more opinions of what the problem could be. Would the only thing to cause rod knock be the fact that there are bad con rod bearing, or could it as well be the main bearings themselves? As well, what is a good way to make sure the oil pump is working to its fullest, b/c i think that it could possibly be on its way out. What makes me think that is the fact that valvetrain started to make some noise (which i've read is very common in toyotas) and then after it had been doing that, it started to make this other noise, which i think is rod knock.

Who has had similar problems?

All and any comments are more than welcome, and thanks ahead of time :)

90GT
08-04-2006, 09:45 PM
that doesnt sound like a rod knock. my oil pump went out while driving and my car developed a rod knock in like 15 mins. they are loud clunks and are spaced apart more than your sound. that sounds like the lifters to me. but i could be wrong. what i would do is is def put some nice oil in there like mobile 1 synthetic and possible get your oil pump checked out

Hookecho
08-04-2006, 10:36 PM
main bearings usually cause more of a vibration in the motor when they go bad. usually when you have rod knock it is the result of poor lubrication between the bearing and the crank. the end result being a crushed bearing which creates to much clearance between it and the crank creating a knock. alot of the time if the problem is corrected before the slight knock becomes a hard knock then you can get by without having the crank turned. if not then the bearing will spin flat, grind up the crank, and egg shape the rod. after that happens you will be pulling the motor. if you do decide to inspect/change the bearings, which you should, then make sure you check the clearances on the crank to make sure it is still within it limits.

checking and changing the rod bearings is easy, it's getting the oil pan off that's a pain in the butt!

balagast
08-05-2006, 01:51 AM
that doesnt sound like a rod knock. my oil pump went out while driving and my car developed a rod knock in like 15 mins. they are loud clunks and are spaced apart more than your sound. that sounds like the lifters to me. but i could be wrong. what i would do is is def put some nice oil in there like mobile 1 synthetic and possible get your oil pump checked out

I did just put good oil in the car about two weeks ago. . .
and i agree the majority of the noise is a problem with the valves, but there is another sound, that is hard to hear in the video, that developed two days ago (which is why i stopped driving the car immediately). I is a different and more spaced out clanking noise. having said that i didn't hear more than the ticking noise when i scoped the car, and the clanking didnt seem to be as loud after i had let the car sit for a day and then took the video.

I;m going to take a better look at the car tommorow, now that i have a day off.

What is a good way to check the oil pump for funtionality? As well, i remember reading about a way to check the oil pressure sender b/c that could also be a problem?

Basically what should i look into checking, b4 i go and drop the oil pan, b/c i've heard that can be a PITA.

waytooslow
08-05-2006, 03:15 AM
When's the last time you had a timing belt put on it? Mine started making some ticking, and I brought it in for a tuneup...225,000 on the frickin original belt. Thing was hard as steel, and shiny as a mirror. New belt, no ticking.

balagast
08-05-2006, 04:01 AM
Why would a worn belt cause that kind of ticking. . . just curious and thanks for the input

Where is the infinate knowledge of Jeremy in this thread??? LOL http://www.celicatech.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=211407#
Hehe

MCcelica
08-05-2006, 02:59 PM
^It would be adding stress to the idler pulleys.

balagast
08-05-2006, 07:15 PM
where is the the oil pressure switch on the 5sfe, i'd like to check the oil pressure to make sure the oil pump is working adequetly

saved_1992
08-05-2006, 09:52 PM
should be on the drivers side of the motor close to the head, will have one wire to it.

here is another trip on checking for a rod bearing, with car running, pull #1 spark plug wire, check for the knock, reinstall plug wire, and do that to each cyld, the one that makes the noise quieter is the rod bearing that is bad.


you should also pull the valve cover and find out what the ticking is

schmooot
08-06-2006, 12:16 AM
if the sound is coming from the valve cover then pull the cover off and crank the engine over by hand, it could just be a valve making the noise

balagast
08-06-2006, 01:16 AM
Ok thanks everyone... i'll def. pull the valve cover tommorow... as well, could a worn timing belt start to cause the valvetrain to make noise?

balagast
08-06-2006, 11:26 PM
Ok, so i pulled off the valve cover today and took some pics of the underneath... i have a couple questions though.
1) the valve cover pics #4, 5, 6 are close ups, are they the oil feeds and or the oil returns, b/c they are filled with gunk.
2) what else should i look for with the cams, lifters etc
3) if those close ups aren;t of the oil feeds/returns, where are they, and what the hell are those.

Please help!!!!!

aballz
08-07-2006, 12:53 AM
Where's the pics?

balagast
08-07-2006, 12:59 AM
pics are at the same site ... www.rpi.edu/~donalm

balagast
08-07-2006, 06:49 PM
Any input??? Alltracman78 .... where are you

davmac
08-08-2006, 12:17 AM
alltracman has probably forgotten more than I know, but here is my opinion anyway. Sorry for the book.
The noise in your video sounds more like a bad bearing on one of your belt driven accessories. Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but if you can hear ticking over all that bearing noise I think it is just valves out of adjustment. I think the source of the noise most likely to be the alternator or the accessory idler pulley. You can remove the belt and still start the engine and see if noise is still there.

It is possible that the idler or tensioner pulley for the timing belt could also have bad bearings, and sound the same.

You can also get a stethoscope from an auto parts store for ~$10. It has a long metal tip that you can place on different parts of the engine while running.

You’ve got a lot of noise, but the engine seems to idle smoothly and you have not mentioned an oil pressure light that would indicate high or low oil pressure. Even when you rev the engine it seems to be smooth and has power. When driving are you ever seeing oil pressure light? Other than noise does it have decent power? Has it over heated? Does it idle smoothly?

The oil pressure sender is the big “plug” on the front of the engine above exhaust manifold and near the distributor cap. You can install an oil pressure gauge at that location. If crank or camshaft bearings are shot you will have low oil pressure.

BTW the spark plugs you removed looked OK and are not cheapo. I think they are splitfires. I don’t know what to think about the dissy cap other than it needs to be replaced. That hole comes along the path from the ignition coil to the center of the distributor / rotor. Was that hole caused by burning or rubbing and from the inside out or from the outside? The top end of the engine under valve cover is not pristine, but not overly sludged.

balagast
08-08-2006, 04:06 AM
ok thanks for all the inut ... any and is appriacated very much. You are right the oil pressure light has not come on. As for how the car runs, it is powerful as ever, but it does vibrate under acel at low rpms (2000-3200). As well the car idles fairly smooth, a little irregularity when it is hot and sitting in traffic. The car has never overheated. im thinking it could be the timing belt more and more, b/c i dont know when (or if) it has been replaced. I am not the original ower of the car (i bought it 4 years ago, with 130k and now it has 164k), but the person i bought it from said that the water pump was replaced, and I would assume that they replaced it (so basically i can't be sure). When i get some time i'm probably going to have to go and do the belt this week, just to be sure.

balagast
08-08-2006, 08:16 PM
Anyone else????

acidice333
08-09-2006, 12:32 AM
My clicking noise has been clicking for 3 years now and if I put my finger on spark plug boot #2 and put pressure on it, I can feel it clicking.. I've pulled out the plugs before and no damage to the plugs (:

balagast
08-10-2006, 02:00 AM
Ok so i finally had an evening where i could work on the car for a bit, and I started with the timing belt replacement, b/c a bunch of you have said that could be the problem. I go the top t belt cover off and noticed the belt is shiny and cracked to shit... so I;m guessing that could definately be at least part of the problem. I shall hopefully finish it up tommorow... Just thought that i'd throw that out there.