PDA

View Full Version : 1988 celica alltrac should i buy?



Stanzalone
07-19-2006, 01:27 AM
Hey everyone I've seen alot of people asking this question before and I too need some help. I have the chance to purchase an 88 celica alltrac with a 5sfe engine from an 96/97 celica. Guy says it is a B20 toyota turbo that he put in but I can not find it anywhere, I may have the turbo info wrong. It has an air cooled intercooler top mounted with a hood scoop. He said it was the same setup that was run on the 96-97 alltracs not in the USA. I am new to all of this and have taken in alot over the past two weeks, reading up on these forums and I still lost. This car is also running with the stock ecu from the 88 and he said if i get the wiring harness for the 5sfe it would run at its full potential. He was happy with the power as it was and it seemed fine by me. I just don't know if this sounds right? Please if anyone can help point me in the right direction it is much appreciated. Thanks

Cavanagh
07-19-2006, 01:33 AM
Well, sounds too me like that guy has his shit wrong, the 88 alltracs came the the first gen 3S-GTE. i have never heard of a b20 turbo. and the 96-97 alltracs ran on 3rd generation 3S-GTEs that put out 260 hp. this guys seems to be lying to you, go somewhere else. If you do want an alltrac, go to http://www.alltrac.net/. Good Luck

91 celica st
07-19-2006, 01:43 AM
is there a link or something to it? theres no such things as a toyota B20 turbo, theres a ct-20B turbo....alltracks came with a 3s-gte not 5sfe, 5sfe came in 90-93 and 94-98 celica gt and /s

ciento44
07-19-2006, 01:50 AM
Hey everyone I've seen alot of people asking this question before and I too need some help. I have the chance to purchase an 88 celica alltrac with a 5sfe engine from an 96/97 celica. Guy says it is a B20 toyota turbo that he put in but I can not find it anywhere, I may have the turbo info wrong. It has an air cooled intercooler top mounted with a hood scoop. He said it was the same setup that was run on the 96-97 alltracs not in the USA. I am new to all of this and have taken in alot over the past two weeks, reading up on these forums and I still lost. This car is also running with the stock ecu from the 88 and he said if i get the wiring harness for the 5sfe it would run at its full potential. He was happy with the power as it was and it seemed fine by me. I just don't know if this sounds right? Please if anyone can help point me in the right direction it is much appreciated. Thanks

Everything he said is total bullcrap. I'd be suspicious if he actually owned the car.

alltracman78
07-19-2006, 03:31 AM
yeah, someone has TOTALLY wrong info.
I dont' think there is a shred that is correct....

Can you get pics?

Cavanagh
07-19-2006, 03:41 AM
alltracks came with a 3s-gte
*All-Trac* :hehe:

Stanzalone
07-19-2006, 01:58 PM
OH boy now i'm alittle scared. He said he swapped out the original engine and put in a 5sfe which is the 3sfe here. He imported it from overseas. I am suppose to get this thing on saturday evening now i'm skeptical. I am not spending a fortune on the car so I could always put something else in it engine wise. I think I might go for it, when I get the celica I will take some pics of the engine componets and post them, and then let me know what you guys think. I'm rolling the dice. Thanks for all your help

COLDAX
07-19-2006, 03:58 PM
B20 is a Honda motor, I believe from the Civic.

Colossus20v
07-19-2006, 04:37 PM
OH boy now i'm alittle scared. He said he swapped out the original engine and put in a 5sfe which is the 3sfe here. He imported it from overseas. I am suppose to get this thing on saturday evening now i'm skeptical. I am not spending a fortune on the car so I could always put something else in it engine wise. I think I might go for it, when I get the celica I will take some pics of the engine componets and post them, and then let me know what you guys think. I'm rolling the dice. Thanks for all your help
I actually do not think they had the 5sfe over there whatsoever. The 3sfe is a 2 liter economy centered engine. The 5sfe is a 2.2 liter economy centered engine.

If it is a true alltrac then it is all wheel drive. 4th gener celicas came with the 3sfe and first gen of the 3sgte. Which is the 2 liter performance turbo charged engine.

He is not giving you the right information or you are not understanding exactly what he is saying. Either way, it probably does not have a 5sfe in it and if it is turbo'd then it should be a 3sgte and most likely either a first gen or scond gen. If it was the later generation 3s, he would have had to wire it up and would have correct information.

Goodluck, and let us know what happens.

2kSnakEater
07-19-2006, 05:12 PM
and Post Pics asap!!

Stanzalone
07-19-2006, 05:21 PM
Thanks everyone, Collssus you may be right he might have explained it correctly and i did not understand it all. I know its a different engine & turbo in an 88 alltrac. It will be mine saturday night so on sunday you can expect some pics. Thanks all

alltracman78
07-19-2006, 05:47 PM
Hold on man.
You need to make sure it's an Alltrac chassis first...
2 Real easy ways to tell without getting under the car.
First is, on the pass side, the floorpan should hump out from the center console. The carpet will cover it, but if you look on the driver side, it pretty much goes straight down. The pass is ALOT more of a slope.
The second way is to look for the gas tank.
On the Alltracs, it's in the very rear of the car. You can see it hanging down from right behind the rear bumper.
The FWD Celicas have the spare tire hanging down, but it's a circular shape. The gas tank is a rectangle.

In addition, the Alltrac ONLY came in hatchback.
If it's a coupe [trunk, not hatch], it is NOT an Alltrac.
Period.

Make sure it's at least an Alltrac chassis before you go spending your $$$ on it.

Cavanagh
07-19-2006, 06:04 PM
When does alltracman not help? :luvydunno

Stanzalone
07-19-2006, 06:05 PM
Thank I really appreciate you looking out. I did check it out had him jack it up and took a good look underneath. No rust and the tank is all the way in the rear.

Cavanagh
07-20-2006, 12:03 AM
So was at an all-trac or not??
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/433/st18520celica203sgteiz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^^^^Look for that engine, it's a 3S-GTE, if thats there, you gotta alltrac. :bigthumbu

alltracman78
07-20-2006, 04:23 AM
Well,
first off, that is a ST185 engine.
He is looking at a ST165.

So itw on't look the smae.

Cavanagh
07-21-2006, 04:02 AM
oh ya, hes look for 165, my bad...

Stanzalone
07-21-2006, 08:52 PM
Ok so I had to push off the guy until next saturday as my funds were not there. I was asking him again to confirm what it has. The block is a 5sfe 2.2liter from a JDM 6th gen celica and he installed a CT20B turbocharger. I can not wait to put some pics up once I do get the car to confirm what is in it and learn a few more things. It is an alltrac

Cavanagh
07-21-2006, 11:08 PM
Don't, thats SLOWER than a 3SGTE....

ciento44
07-22-2006, 12:14 AM
I highly doubt it's an alltrac dude....

Stay away from it. You don't want it. :(

Cavanagh
07-22-2006, 12:21 AM
I highly doubt it's an alltrac dude....

Stay away from it. You don't want it. :(

QFT!!!!! Listen to cient, that guy is shady and doesn't know what hes talking about, like i said in the first post, find a new, GOOD one that you know is an alltrac. www.alltrac.net

2kSnakEater
07-22-2006, 03:10 AM
take some fucking pics of the thing BEFORE you buy it and post em, we can tell you if its a $200 piece of garbage ST or another piece of shit All-Trac with a ductaped 5sfe.

alltracman78
07-22-2006, 03:50 AM
Word.

d1alltrac
07-22-2006, 11:27 AM
listen to the advice in the thread, from what you have described it sounds like the guy is trying to rip you off...all of the info in the original post is completely wrong, PLEASE take pics and post BEFORE you give that guy a penny.




B20 is a Honda motor, I believe from the Civic.

IIRC the B20 is a hybrid motor using a CRV block and some B series head.

Rick89GTS
07-23-2006, 06:44 AM
Stanzalone, you sound like you're so desperate to buy an AllTrac, your common sense has left you. If you can't even identify what an AllTrac is, fer cryin' out loud, don't buy it. Two things make it an AllTrac: the 3SGTE and AWD. Looks like yours is already missing half the equation. Listen to the boys here, good advice. BTW, when you look underneath it, find that big yellow thing - it's the rear differential. Also look for the drive shaft. Regular Celicas won't have them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/Rick88AllTrac/001underneathpic.jpg

wizzards581
07-23-2006, 04:13 PM
B20 is a Honda motor, I believe from the Civic.

B20A from 88-91 preludes
B20B/B20Z from CR-V

ciento44
07-23-2006, 04:40 PM
Yeah, there's a few B20 hatches running around here...

Block from the CRX, and usually either the B16 or B18 head. Nasty little motors. I drove one last night that runs 12.1, all motor, no turbo.

Stanzalone
07-24-2006, 07:38 PM
It definately is an Alltrac I had him jack it up and I was underneath checking for leaks on the rear deff and front engine area. I got a ride in it two weeks ago with my buddy who works at Infinity. He introduced me to the guy selling the car but he doesn't know specifics about Toyotas. The guy seemes legit and did most of the work on the car himself. The car ran great and pulled three fat asses nicely. I can not get to the car to take pics it is located too far for me to just drive and take some pics. The guy is asking $3500.00.

2kSnakEater
07-24-2006, 07:41 PM
then have him take some pics and send em to you.

celica9303
07-24-2006, 08:04 PM
im with him ^

and the crx never had a b20 block the JDm ones had a B16a but not a B20. it is possibly it ran twelves though.my civic hatch(91) ran a 13.9 at 102 with a turbo b16a

Stanzalone
07-24-2006, 08:29 PM
Alright I just left him a message I need some pics lets see what happens.

Cavanagh
07-24-2006, 09:34 PM
He introduced me to the guy selling the car but he doesn't know specifics about Toyotas. The guy seemes legit and did most of the work on the car himself.

If he worked with his car, you think he would know what engine an specs its got.... :ugh:

ciento44
07-25-2006, 03:21 AM
im with him ^

and the crx never had a b20 block the JDm ones had a B16a but not a B20. it is possibly it ran twelves though.my civic hatch(91) ran a 13.9 at 102 with a turbo b16a

When people run B20s, it's usually a B20 block out of the CRV, with a B16 or B18 head. There's a fully built one, still N/A running around here in an EG hatch, at just about 12.0 flat through the quarter.

alltracman78
07-25-2006, 04:11 AM
I The guy is asking $3500.00.

Are you KIDDING?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is what you pay for a GOOD condition one.
One that has a 3SGTE.

If all it has is a 3SFE or 5SFE, it is NOT worth that.
Regardless of chassis condition.

It's more around $1500 maybe.
He is CRAZY.

2kSnakEater
07-25-2006, 04:03 PM
Listen to the AllTracman, he is wise. A Perfect ST165 sells for $3500, that st165 your telling us about seems far from perfect. imo if it doesnt have the original 3sgte or a replacement 3sgte it wouldnt be worth more than $1000

Cavanagh
07-25-2006, 09:39 PM
Please please take our advice, everyone hear thinks its a bad idea and the guy is shady as hell. Especially listen to Alltracman, he knows his shit. buy it for the right price, or go somewhere else. That simple. IMHO i would have left along time ago since hes making up names from different cars that are in your engine. im telling you, www.alltrac.net find a GOOD one there, there won't be any 5sfe's or b20 turbos lol.

BTW, 1 other reason not to trust him is because he says he does all of his matinance and work, but yet, he does not even know the specs of his own car or the car codes. I don't even do extreme work on my car and i know the codes/engines. :squint:

Rick89GTS
07-25-2006, 11:49 PM
This deal smells as bad as week-old fish.
There are plenty of good, unmolested ST165's out there. My advice is be patient and wait for a decent one with a 3SGTE. Or at least get the correct information, if possible. A turboed 5SFE doesn't even come close to the potential of a 3SGTE. Not worth it IMO but you sound determined to buy it, so at least bargain him down hard. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

T-spoon
07-25-2006, 11:58 PM
Well, there's some missing info still. There's not going to be a JDM 5sfe block in that car. Maybe it's a 5sgte or 3s stroker, but clearly information is still missing.

alltracman78
07-26-2006, 03:20 AM
Actually, a 5SFE WILL NOT work with the Alltrac trans.
Unless part of the rear is machined.
I would guess the 3SFE is the same....

So once again this guy seems to be lying....

I really, really hope you are reading and listening....

Stanzalone
07-26-2006, 02:20 PM
I am and I understand the risk here. I'm still probably going to buy this car as stupid and crazy as it sounds. I got a ride in it and it was not slow. I am buying this car because it is in good condition and now have a future project car. I am going to drive this car around for a while and once I get some more money I will be able to do some things to it. I know you guys know what your talking about with this car but I do not have all my facts correct for you. Yes this car was molested as stated by Rick, but I'm not going to be surprised if the engine turns out to be nothing special.

Cavanagh
07-26-2006, 06:43 PM
Do what you want, but why don't you spend the money on a ST165 that you KNOW is an alltrac with a 3s!? NEh, good luck with whatever you do, and when you buy it, post up some pics, espically the engine bay.

Stanzalone
07-26-2006, 07:34 PM
Thank you I will post up some pics as soon as possible.

Luni
07-26-2006, 07:48 PM
Get the damn vin and lets carfax the thing.

Mike431635
07-26-2006, 08:42 PM
Wow, this guy is stupid. Just, wow.

RIalltrac
07-27-2006, 02:01 AM
$3500 and it might not even be an alltrac, your gonna get :owned:

d1alltrac
07-28-2006, 04:37 AM
well good luck then stanzalone,

i mean for all we know its a nice alltrac and the description just got mixed up going from one person to the next (ie B20 turbo = ct20b) but i guess we will have to wait and see. if not and it is what we all expect it should be a good project at least.

the only thing that still gets to me is the price, thats pretty high for an "alltrac" that no one is quite sure about....but again, we wont know till we see pics.

good luck again

Stanzalone
07-28-2006, 05:10 PM
I've already confirmed it is an alltrac this I do know

2kSnakEater
07-28-2006, 05:13 PM
Pics Or Ban!

Stanzalone
07-28-2006, 05:20 PM
I will post once i get the car maybe take me a day to put them up. Pics will be up by Sunday the latest. Thanks for the threat

2kSnakEater
07-28-2006, 06:04 PM
lol, thats no threat its just a fun little "internet slang"

Stanzalone
07-31-2006, 02:52 PM
Well where to start? I get to the guys house on saturday everything going fine and he then starts telling me little things the car needs. Things never mentioned before, but i'm just excited because i'm getting the car. Long story short I drive about 10 mins away and the car is about to overheat, pull over shut it off and shit starts leaking antifreeze. Called him up got my money and gave him the car back. He was claiming it was the thermostat he put in did not work right. He is going to fix it and call me back but i deff can't buy this piece now. My friend said offer him $1500.00, so I am waiting the guy to call me to see whats going on. You guys called it thanks for all the advice. The car did run great for the 10 mins I had it but boy do I want a turbo car now.

Cavanagh
07-31-2006, 11:06 PM
lol WE told you this guy was shady and somethings not right. :nono:

Stanzalone
08-01-2006, 08:42 PM
Alright getting the car tomorrow i'm not paying $3500.00 like I said. He put in a new thermostat and replaced the hose that blew. I will post pics tomorrow let me know what you guys think.

2kSnakEater
08-01-2006, 08:47 PM
what about the pics!!!

elektrateq
08-01-2006, 10:22 PM
how much you payin for it then? It's got a turbo so I could see buyin it for closer to $2k Maybe the rear dif aint hooked up? So... why wont a 5s hook up to a 3s tranny? Don't all s's mate up?

Rick89GTS
08-02-2006, 05:30 AM
If it were me, I'd be long gone.
For your sake, I hope this ends up being OK.

Cavanagh
08-02-2006, 06:06 AM
Rick, don't try, we have all tried to conivce him not to get it, but hes been stubborn. :hehe:

Stanzalone
08-02-2006, 01:57 PM
It's true I am stubborn and I hope myself that everything goes well. I will post pics sometime tomorrow as today should be the day.

Rick89GTS
08-03-2006, 05:55 AM
Well....did you get it yet?
We've all got our fingers crossed! :ugh:

Stanzalone
08-03-2006, 02:11 PM
Yes I got the car it's with me now at work. Drove it around all last night only thing I'm going to have to do something to get it to run alittle cooler. It runs in the middle most of the time but when you get on it it goes up alittle more the 3/4. It is real hot here right now in NY. But I will try to have the pics up tonight. Thanks again guys

2kSnakEater
08-03-2006, 02:24 PM
Pics!! Or We Will Stick It Up Your ****!

Luni
08-03-2006, 05:19 PM
That gauge shouldnt go past the middle. Ever.

You need to get a high pressure wash and blow out all the radiator fins.

Joels (1sloceli) radiator passages for air on the outside were all muded up and clogged and causing him to overheat. That might be your issue. You might also have air in your cooling system too.

Stanzalone
08-03-2006, 05:23 PM
I will try that thanks, I believe there is air in the cooling system I put the heat on and it did not get that hot.

Stanzalone
08-04-2006, 01:28 AM
Not sure how to post pics directly on here but here is a link to the pics http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=17&userid=4318

=cJ=
08-04-2006, 01:46 AM
Not a genuine bonnet to start with, I think that's a Subaru WRX scoop. The motor LOOKS like a 3SGTE to me though...

Still, looks straight which is a good start :)

Got any shots looking at the underside of the car at the back?

Rick89GTS
08-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Yeah, looks like the 2nd gen 3SGTE in there. Wonder why he couldn't explain that?!
So how much did you end up paying for it?

Colossus20v
08-04-2006, 12:58 PM
actually looks decent....

2kSnakEater
08-04-2006, 02:52 PM
wow, it looks very nice! before you do anything see about getting radiator straps or something, Zip ties do give out after a while.

2kSnakEater
08-04-2006, 03:01 PM
Since the hood already has a hole cut out for a scoop, soo if you can get the STi scoop instead of the wimpy wrx scoop. You defenetly got a Very nice ST165.

Rick89GTS
08-09-2006, 05:33 AM
So, how do you like driving your new 165? :)

KoreanJoey
08-09-2006, 06:41 AM
You got screwed... I just wanted to say one thing and say it twice...
THERE WAS NO JDM 5SFE...

Again

THERE WAS NO JDM 5SFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IN CASE YOU DIDN'T READ THE OTHER TWO TIMES

THERE WAS NO JDM 5SFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GT4SOM
08-09-2006, 07:41 AM
I say nay, never been a fan of 4th gens.

Stanzalone
08-09-2006, 01:53 PM
So far no problems love driving the car. I need new springs in the front they were hacked and I want to get rid of the ultra low lip in the front. I say yay, really fun to drive loud turbo spool and blow-off. Guy says the engine came from the last of the alltracs. Two questions, How can I determine which block I really do have, and was there ever an alltrac overseas that came with a 2.2 engine?

Colossus20v
08-09-2006, 02:25 PM
^no. Look on the engine block you should see a 3sgte on the block.

2kSnakEater
08-09-2006, 02:32 PM
there never was a 2.2L all-trac they were all 2.0L, the last of the All-Tracs was the st205, they really werent called All-Tracs since the All-Trac name was used in the US. The st205 GT4 had a bit more powerfull engine and a different intercooler, you have what it looks like the st185 engine witch in a technicality IS the Last of the All-Tracs, But I could be wrong he could of just slaped an st185 top mount intercooler on your original engine.

alltracman78
08-10-2006, 02:46 AM
You have a 90-91 JDM 3SGTE from a ST185.
However it looks like they used the ST165 harness from your car.
So you get none of the power.
And that harness needs some love. The pins for the TPS are bare, which is a BIG problem. It looks a bit thrown together. And the ic is bashed up.
How much did you end up paying?
It certainly looks like an Alltrac. Can you put up a pic of the rear underside?
What's up with the headlights? They are canted in twards the center.
Was it in an accident?


Maybe the rear dif aint hooked up? So... why wont a 5s hook up to a 3s tranny? Don't all s's mate up?

The rear diff pretty much has to be hooked up. If not, you will lose all your oil out the transfer case [the propellor shaft seals it in].

Also, A 5S will bolt up to a 3S trans.
However, the transfer case from a awd 3SGTE hits the rear of the 5SFE block.
You can cut a bit of the block away and make it work, but it's not a bolt on.

Stanzalone
08-11-2006, 06:19 PM
Yes the car was originally totalled as it was in an accident in CT. The guy bought it from a junk yard and had it on the road in 2001 because he didn't want it to get parted out and loved the car. He fixed it up to what you see and drove it till recently. The guy gave me another computer and part of the wiring harness from this engine, but they don't like that great. The wires deff need to be redone on the car, like you mention plugs are broken and just the pins are used. I would like to get it wired correctly but I am not sure what parts or sensors i'm going to need. I believe i would need some parts to make the correct wiring harness to work? I will take some pics underneath for you the rear diff cover shows that there is a leak somewhere. I will not be around till next Thursday going on vacation so after that I will post the pics. Let me know if you could help me out to get this car running to it's full capability. Thanks everyone for all your feedback it is much appreciated, even know i'm a stubborn bastard.

alltracman78
08-12-2006, 01:48 AM
We're here to help. ;)
Where are you located?

Stanzalone
08-21-2006, 06:12 PM
Hey everyone I am back from vacation still trying to settle back into things I will have those pics soon for you. I am located in the New England area. I'll post later work is crazy today. thanks for your help

alltracman78
08-21-2006, 10:26 PM
Well how about that.....
So am I.
Whereabouts?

alltracman78
12-18-2006, 09:57 PM
So yeah, where in NE are you again?