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**BETSY**
07-07-2006, 06:05 PM
Hi all, looking at fitting an st205 ecu and associated parts into my st165, which is running a st185 engines on the 165 loom and sensors.

i have gathered most parts needed but interested to know if any one else has done this swap?

tia

Steve

alltracman78
07-08-2006, 02:46 AM
I don't know the specifics on this, you are probably better off posting this in the FI forum.
Which I am going to move it to.

MrWOT
07-08-2006, 03:35 AM
I looked into it a while ago, but went standalone instead. It's about the same ammount of effort to switch to the 205 ECU.

ChrisD
07-09-2006, 06:52 PM
Some of my thoughts from ongoing conversation with Steve. :)

The distributor will be 100% fine. You will need to repin the pinouts so that they match, but all of the pins in that area are identical.

The IC system is a little different. The ST205 has a few more inputs and outputs. I usually just blank them. The sensor wire for the c/cooler can be connected to ground which will bypass the error. Then you would have to run the pump constant on switched +12V power. That is what I have done.

One disadvantage to note is that you will lose control of the TVIS. An MSD rpm switch would work if you wanted to go that route.

Also you would need the ST205 MAP sensor and the ST205 intake air temp sensor. I think there is also a temp sensor that goes pre-turbo. You can get this out of the AFM (tip: go to a junkyard and rip an old toyota AFM apart).

The A/C will work I believe as there is only one wire to worry about for the ST165 (i forget the pin name), and several for the more complicated ST205 ac system. You just need the one corresponding wire and the rest blanked off.

You will also need the ST205 ignitor I believe. This is also standard on quite a few other Toyotas.

Speedo will be relatively untouched. ST165 still has an SPD wire coming from the gauge cluster that you put in the corresponding pin on the ST205 ECU.

The ST205 has M+, M-, INT, and LEV for the intercooler. I *think* it is the M+ wire. It's the only one that seems to compare to the ST165 WIN wire.

Here is the ST205 diagrams: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526

On the temp sensors, yep exactly right. Thats another thing, the cold start injector can't operate with the ST205 ECU. RickyB sells a little plate for a temp sensor to fit where the injector went. www.mrcontrols.com . Cheap, but it would be coming from the US. Allows the use of any compatible temp sensor. I'm using a GM one. Not sure how close it is to the ST205 one.

Throttle position setting should be identical.

The temp sensors are generally very close in readings, enough that I would not worry about.

**BETSY**
07-09-2006, 07:38 PM
Thanks for the replies and help so far guys ;)

will keep you posted on the swap

**BETSY**
07-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Just a thought... what happens with the fuel pump switch which is housed in the afm?

sure i will have a few extra thoughts yet ;)

MrWOT
07-10-2006, 10:48 PM
You will have to wire it to an ignition switched source, just be aware that means if the ignition is on, so is the pump. You might want to wire in an extra inertia switch in case of accident.

ChrisD
07-10-2006, 10:49 PM
Oh yeah! You will need to run a little jumper to complete that switch.

**BETSY**
07-10-2006, 11:01 PM
thanks for the reply guys..

can this be done by looping/bridging the afm connector?
you not the next question ;)

choice of 5 terminals?

**BETSY**
07-13-2006, 09:54 PM
any further thoughts on this?
just loop two of the pins on the afm connector (ecu loom connector)

**BETSY**
07-24-2006, 08:58 PM
will be doing this over the next few weeks...

kinda stuck on how to sort the furl pump out.

how does the 185/205 switch the pump on and off?

ChrisD
07-24-2006, 10:21 PM
Hey Steve! Sorry about missing the posts here. I just went through the ST185->ST205 ECU swap requirements for myself and it's not that bad actually.

First off, ignore what I said about that jumper. I looked at it and I was wrong. Well, not wrong, but there is a better way to do this.

So lets take a look @ ST165

http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/89ewd/I/16x_ewd_56.jpg
http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/89ewd/I/16x_ewd_57.jpg

If you look, bridging the Green and White/Black wires will ground the circuit, and allow power to the Fuel Pump. The fuel pump relay will still be functional and be able to switch between high and low voltage. This green wire is the FC wire. The FC wire is a little different on ST205.

The problem is that it will be like that all the time. The fuel pump shouldnt run, but there is a better way to do it.

Now taking a look at the ST205 diagram...

http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/205/205ewd6.jpg

Click here for ECU pinouts and full diagrams: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526

The ST205 lets the ECU ground the FC to complete the cct, and activate the COR which then sends power to the fuel pump. (COR is the circuit opening relay attached to the ECU).

So here is what you do

Dont bridge the wires at the AFM.

Instead, go to the ECU end of things. Find the green wire that is coming out of the Circuit Opening relay on your ST165 harness. This is the FC wire. Take this wire and cut it giving yourself as much wire as possible. Then, you need to wire it in to the FC pin on the ST205 ECU.

Thats it. Take the wire from the COR and plug it into the ECU instead of letting it go up to the engine harness.

**BETSY**
07-24-2006, 10:30 PM
Hey Chris.. as usual.. your a star!

thanks so much for taking the time to help me out here..

as a side note we had a huge japanese car show here this weekend and i bumped into adrain smith of fensport fame..
after a few beers i asked him on his thoughts about the st205 ecu vs the st165.. and the implications.

he seemed to speak highly of the st205 ecu and said it was a BIG step in the right direction!

thanks again Chris for all your help..

ChrisD
07-25-2006, 05:32 AM
Hey Chris.. as usual.. your a star!

thanks so much for taking the time to help me out here..

as a side note we had a huge japanese car show here this weekend and i bumped into adrain smith of fensport fame..
after a few beers i asked him on his thoughts about the st205 ecu vs the st165.. and the implications.

he seemed to speak highly of the st205 ecu and said it was a BIG step in the right direction!

thanks again Chris for all your help..

No prob Steve! Just took a few minutes to sit down and look at the diagrams seriously.

I agree, the ST205 ECU is a great upgrade. For me, it would be the movement of AFM to MAP based mapping. I truly dislike the AFM and believe it to be the cause of a lot of the troubles people encounter and assume to be 'just the way it is'.

**BETSY**
08-10-2006, 10:31 PM
Hi All, any one know what the following pins do on a st205 JDM ecu?

ECO
ELS
CF
EGW

Started to label up the ecu wires on the 205 loom.. a fair few wires are joined further down for example:

VC (Red) splits into two wires. diagram shows one goes to turbo pressure sensor and the other goes to throttle position sensor.

any ideas how i go about this?



have wires for them but no idea what they do?

TIA

**BETSY**
08-14-2006, 09:58 PM
Hey Chris, have you got your st165 running with the 205 ecu yet?

after a bit more advice with some of the pinouts.

I want to use my AC of which there is only one pin (A/C) on the st165 ecu for and four AC1, ACT, ATS & VISC on the st205? any ideas which to go for?

The extra wires neede to run the MAT and IAT i guess one wire goes to the ecu and the other to ground?

st165 ecu has +B1 where the 205 doesn't?

st165 has a pin labeled VC goes to the AF st205 has the same pin for sensor power source?

st165 ecu has isc1 & isc2 the 205 uses RSO & RSC any ideas what goes to what here?

Check connector st165 VF & T st205 TE1, TE2 and VF..again any ideas?

sorry for the questions.. if you can shed any light on it would appreciate it ;)

Steve

ChrisD
08-15-2006, 03:20 PM
Hey Chris, have you got your st165 running with the 205 ecu yet?


Nope not yet. Still working on it. Not enough time, too much to do lately. :)



after a bit more advice with some of the pinouts.


OK sure.



I want to use my AC of which there is only one pin (A/C) on the st165 ecu for and four AC1, ACT, ATS & VISC on the st205? any ideas which to go for?


A/C = AC1. The rest you can ignore.



The extra wires neede to run the MAT and IAT i guess one wire goes to the ecu and the other to ground?


Yeah. Use sensor ground specifically not any old ground. For the MAT it is convenient to splice into the throttle position sensor ground. For the IAT you can use the ground at the AFM.



st165 ecu has +B1 where the 205 doesn't?


+B, +B1, +B2 etc. are all the same. Splice that +B1 into the other +B that is there.



st165 has a pin labeled VC goes to the AF st205 has the same pin for sensor power source?


VC is the +5V source for all the sensors. It is the same on ST205 and ST165.



st165 ecu has isc1 & isc2 the 205 uses RSO & RSC any ideas what goes to what here?


The both control the idle speed control valve. Check the diagram to see whether ISC1=RSO or ISC1=RSC.



Check connector st165 VF & T st205 TE1, TE2 and VF..again any ideas?


T=TE1=TE2. VF=VF. Straight repinning/splicing at the ECU.



sorry for the questions.. if you can shed any light on it would appreciate it ;)

Steve

No worries, hopefully that helps!

**BETSY**
08-15-2006, 08:56 PM
Nope not yet. Still working on it. Not enough time, too much to do lately. :)

Hey Chris, bummer..getting close though?



A/C = AC1. The rest you can ignore.

Thanks, makes sense ;)




Yeah. Use sensor ground specifically not any old ground. For the MAT it is convenient to splice into the throttle position sensor ground. For the IAT you can use the ground at the AFM.

ok so run both wires back to ecu, one to ground used by other sensors and the other wire to corresponding ecu terminal.




+B, +B1, +B2 etc. are all the same. Splice that +B1 into the other +B that is there.

Ok makes senses.



VC is the +5V source for all the sensors. It is the same on ST205 and ST165.
Ok, st165 vc wire goes to the AFM, used to power it?
so VC to VC :-)




The both control the idle speed control valve. Check the diagram to see whether ISC1=RSO or ISC1=RSC.

From what i can tell it looks likely that Isc 1 goes to RSO and Isc2 goes to RSC??




T=TE1=TE2. VF=VF. Straight repinning/splicing at the ECU.

little unsure on this one, VF goes to VF no problem but the other two?




No worries, hopefully that helps

many thanks, i feel im nearly ready to get repinning the ecu ;)

**BETSY**
09-03-2006, 08:42 PM
few updates..

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d30/steve-gillies/ecu.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d30/steve-gillies/ecucloseup.jpg

Patch leads to convert the st165 loom to the st205 sensors
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d30/steve-gillies/TurboPressuresensorlead.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d30/steve-gillies/IgniterLead.jpg

**BETSY**
09-06-2006, 09:20 PM
still a little stuck on where the te1 and te2 of the st205 ecu go to on the st165 wireing..

any ideas?

**BETSY**
09-09-2006, 12:33 AM
Bttt

ChrisD
09-09-2006, 05:15 PM
Steve - *very* nice work so far! Nice and clean work. I like. :)

On the ST205, TE1 and TE2 go straight to the check connector (diagnostics box). The ST165 has a similar wire "T" that goes there.

ST165 "E1" is a ground that eventually connects at the intake manifold ground I believe. E1 is primarily responsible for the wire shields of various other wires. But it is a ground, and is also connected in the check connector as pin E1.

I am not sure what TE2 is used for in the diagnostics box for the ST205, but I would use the ST165 "T" wire to connect ST205 TE1.

For reference, this is what Im using to answer questions:

ST165: http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/bgbonline/89ewd/I/54.htm
ST205: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1526

Good luck!

**BETSY**
09-10-2006, 08:52 AM
Hey Chris, Thankyou for the reply.
I'm also not sure what the TE" does, iirc, the st185 usese the same labeled wires for the Diagnostic socket, not sure if it is highlighted any better in the BGB for the 185?

few more weeks and it should be going :-)

will keep you posted!

**BETSY**
09-10-2006, 09:22 PM
Right, Plugged in the st205 ecu again tonight and wired the 165 T1 to the st205 TE1 and i got some codes out of it :-)

Code 54 which was to be expected and a strange one Code 23..know i have been unable to find out what code this is??

also to through something into the mix, i would love to keep the C/Cooler pump running as Toyota intended i.e run for 30secs when the throttle is opened and stop if the throttle isn't touched again, same system as in the 165 and 205.

any ideas if and how this can be achieved?

**BETSY**
09-18-2006, 08:45 PM
not a great deal to update on.
got the new injector seals and installed the f injectors into a spare 185 fuel rail.

been thinking about the st165 C/Cooler ecu system and im guessing this will remain working the same way with the st205 ecu as its not controlled by the ecu?

**BETSY**
09-24-2006, 09:04 PM
ok have a fvew issues still to resolve.

the dreaded Code 54 is with me and unable to loose it :-(
any ideas?

I also have a code 23, unable to find out what that code is, any thoughts?

the air cleaner temp sensor can be wired straight into the afm wireing connector which is nice :-)

KoreanJoey
09-25-2006, 06:34 AM
umm... can't remember is 23 is either the O2 sensor or Air Temp Sensor.

**BETSY**
09-25-2006, 01:30 PM
Hi, 24 is the air cleaner temp sensor on a rev3 mr2/st205.

all i can find for the code 23 is on a mr2 site and it mentions Evaporisation??

TIA

**BETSY**
09-26-2006, 07:47 PM
any one have any further ideas?

ChrisD
09-27-2006, 02:20 AM
I can't find anything on those codes Steve. :(

MrWOT
09-27-2006, 04:42 AM
Could be caused by unshielded wiring, I've seen that trip knock sensors before, don't know if it's your issue here though?

**BETSY**
09-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Hi, i haven't started the engine so doubt its knock sensor (Code52) but thanks for the input.

my main concern is Code 54, I/Cooler and getting shot of it.
I won't complete the install until this is gone.

MrWOT
09-27-2006, 06:52 PM
http://www.gt4dc.co.uk/website/howtos/st205_code54.php

**BETSY**
09-27-2006, 06:55 PM
hi mate, tried that one and it doesn't work for me.
this plan is set up for a st205 complete system, i don't have the other associated parts found in the cars loom and pump.

thanks again

MrWOT
09-27-2006, 07:08 PM
You can still go directly from the ecu pins, should still work :)

http://www.gtfours.co.uk/forum/code54/solution.jpg

If not, I tried :P

**BETSY**
09-27-2006, 07:10 PM
hi, yep tried it and it doesn't work :-(

Thanks again for your input and help :-)

**BETSY**
10-02-2006, 10:41 PM
Im thinking mr2 turbo ecu for this now :-(

Luni
10-02-2006, 11:11 PM
I know someone who has one :)

**BETSY**
10-02-2006, 11:25 PM
tell me more!

Luni
10-02-2006, 11:40 PM
Just to clarify you want a gen3 SW20 ECU right?

Borinal has one from a 94 JDM SW20.

**BETSY**
10-03-2006, 12:10 AM
yeah, rev3+ mr2 turbo ecu

Luni
10-03-2006, 12:21 AM
Ill bet I could get him to send it to you. But youd definately have to pay shipping.

If the ECU ended up working out for you then we could work out a price. I think he was asking around 200usdm for it. Maybe it was 250.

Either way Ill bet if you paid shipping and made a promise not to rip me off, I could send it to you for testing. Problem is, overseas shipping that doesnt take forever and a day is expensive as hell.

**BETSY**
10-03-2006, 12:32 AM
Hi, thanks for the very kind offer!

I'm waiting to hear back from a local source here in the UK.
any ideas on differences between the us spec and jdm spec rev3 ecu?

Luni
10-03-2006, 12:34 AM
There was never a US Spec Rev3 ECU.

**BETSY**
10-03-2006, 12:36 AM
Ok, My bad.

thanks for your help so far.
deffinately want to get this gen3 set-up going soon
will let you know if i need your ecu and thanks again!

:-)

ChrisD
10-03-2006, 12:52 AM
Try grounding the IC pins.

**BETSY**
10-04-2006, 08:47 PM
looks like i will be giving up with the st205 ecu.

i have aquired a rev3 mr2 ecu though.
any ideas what wiring needs to be sorted on this one? lol

power steerring pin?

ChrisD
10-05-2006, 01:38 AM
haha I have no clue. Can you get the ECU pinouts?

**BETSY**
10-05-2006, 07:53 AM
sorry my bad, wrong terminology.

what i mean is does any one know the sw20 ecu pin diagrams.
i have found a few.

Chris, how far have you got with your swap now?

**BETSY**
10-11-2006, 11:16 PM
Well this is doing my head in now :-(
Using a rev3 ecu and still have got Code 23!?!?

any ideas what this code is?

MrWOT
10-11-2006, 11:38 PM
Code 23 is an air temperature sensor fault

**BETSY**
10-11-2006, 11:41 PM
Hi, I'm guessing the inlet manifold temp sensor, not connected it on mine as yet , but the manual shows that as another code...strange.

will give it a try, thanks!

ChrisD
10-12-2006, 12:50 AM
Good luck!

I just got the timing belt on. That was a pain. I have to repin the harness still and also a few other mechanical things. I honestly hope to have it running in 1-3 weeks.

ChrisD
10-29-2006, 04:53 AM
I have finished ~90% of the repinning of the ECU now. It was pretty straight forward moving from 185 to 205 actually.

How is yours coming Steve?

**BETSY**
10-29-2006, 09:26 AM
Hey Chris, Dragging my heels abit tbh.
I have however got hold of the IAT wiring plug to make a patch lead up so i can use the cold start inj wiring & Plug.

540cc inj are loaded into the rail and the cold start port has beem blocked.

my concerns lie with getting the mr2 ecu to let me go above 112mph and how it will get it on with the st165 mechanical speed sensor?

Has your 165 got a 185 loom in?

ChrisD
10-29-2006, 02:58 PM
No I have a 185 loom. I converted it to work in my engine bay. I ran in to a trouble spot with my cold start wire...it did not connect to the ECU as I was expecting. I think it might be due to a past wiring error though. Definitely check to make sure there is connectivity on yours just to be sure. In theory it *should* work.

Only wiring I have left is connecting the THAM wire (intake air temp at manifold) in the engine bay (I decided to use the wire for the turbo pressure sensor...long story), and hook up my MSD rpm switch to activate my TVIS.

Then final fitting issues with the intercooler, and rig up an adaptor to hold the throttle cable. Then I should be ready for tuning.

Unfortunately it's now snowing like mad, and after a terrifying experience this morning driving my Mazda 3 with summer tires, I may not make the trip out to work on my car today as expected. :(

ChrisD
10-29-2006, 03:11 PM
For the sake of completeness for this thread, here is another work-around for code 54 issues developed by Scothaniel on alltrac.net

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/4/Code54circuit.gif

**BETSY**
11-01-2006, 08:17 PM
Hey Chris, I hope this work around sortes the dreaded code 54 for you.

Im sooo close to getting this dropped on now :-)

**BETSY**
11-11-2006, 07:56 PM
Hi Guys, i have started again with getting the st205 system running on my st165/st185.

basically the car will start run for a couple of seconds and then dies.
if i touch the throttle it does even quicker!?

when it runs it sounds smooth and no miss fire.
There are no error codes at all.
I have disconnected the ISC and this makes no difference, on a 165 it should idle at 1k rpm.
FC wire has been cut from the COR and the wire has been connected directly to the Ecu COR ---> Ecu
tried running the car with the st165 Ignitor, no difference.

any suggestions, at a dead end :-(

cms-gt4
11-11-2006, 11:41 PM
You can still go directly from the ecu pins, should still work :)

http://www.gtfours.co.uk/forum/code54/solution.jpg

If not, I tried :P


Yeah, does not work at the ecu for me either. I am also having issues getting scott's method to work as well.

I am going to jump into it again after I get ahead at work.

**BETSY**
11-12-2006, 06:37 PM
Hi, had another crack at it today with a few results.

I found i had a few wires the wrong way around on the Igniter, no tacho, but have set them correctly and now tacho works fine.
It seems the car doesn't like to run or rev with the ISC connected!
if i disconnect it i can make the car rev which sounds smooth but it still won't idle?
on the 165 system if you disconect the ISC the car runs at 1k RPM as it should.
I get the same results running a st205 ecu as a rev3 ecu.

When the car does stall i can hear the fuel pump continue to run for 3 seconds after.
I bridged the AFM connector pins to enable the fuel pump to run full time, same has been tried in the diagnostic socket, and the car still doen't run any better.

I have a Fuel pump relay which was modified years back to run the pump @ 13V constant, again same results.

Adjusted the st165 Throttle position sensor to both extremes.. again same results

Unplugged O2 sensor... guess what ;) same results :-(

Again NO error codes, car fires on the button no problem.


Any one throw any ideas my way?

TIA

ChrisD
11-12-2006, 07:00 PM
To me it almost seems like you have a giant air leak. I would start by checking every connection from the air filter up to the throttle body. Double check...I had that issue once and turned a 30 second fix into a several hour job.

Also check that your map sensor is reading properly.

**BETSY**
11-12-2006, 07:04 PM
Hey Chris, good to hear from you.. HELP!!!!

TBH i can't hear a air leak and afaik the st205 system isn't so picky about air leaks as a AFM system?

checking the TPS patch lead now

TIA

**BETSY**
11-12-2006, 07:24 PM
ok, checked the map sensor patch lead and that is fine.

another question, do i leave the idle up pipe which comes from the inlet manifold/isc in place?
in theory that is causing a huge air leak??

ChrisD
11-13-2006, 08:11 PM
That should stay...the ST205 also uses the ISC.

Have you checked the actual voltage output of the MAP sensor? If this has gone wonky it will probably not idle right. Also check to see that the map still has voltage at the ECU.

You are right, the ST205 is better at dealing with air leaks because of the map system. But a sizeable leak could still cause issues.

It sounds like most things are operating right if it will crank and start for a second....

I'll try to think of more advice too

**BETSY**
11-13-2006, 08:17 PM
Hi Chris, Thanks agin for your support.. I'm kinda at a loss at the moment :-(
No one else has done this//LOL

I wondered if the st205 ISC has different values to that of the st165?

I was going to get a st185 T/B complete with TPS and isc and try that.
After all they are the only parts that i have not changed, oh and the efi temp sensor.

The MR2 boys seem to do this swap very easily.

I'm running the st205 Inlet camshaft also, dizzy and idle screw have been left untouched.

The pipe that runs from ISC and provides vac for A/C etc, this gets left routing back into the Intake afauk?

Thanks again

Your running a st185 engine and sensors with FULL st185 loom?

ChrisD
11-13-2006, 08:25 PM
"full" 185 loom...except I have hacked it up and modified it a tonne...so it isnt original or anything like that.

The ISC should...should be the same. I dont see any reason why they would be different. I can check the values later, those are listed in the BGB in the engine control section.

I'm still thinking it has to be mechanical...is your throttle position sensor moved at all?

**BETSY**
11-13-2006, 09:18 PM
Hey Chris, Picture me out in the dark upside down in the foot well when suddnly it hits me, Like Doc Brown in Back to the future when he falls off the Toilet and bangs his head and sees the FLUX capacitor....

FCD....... Obviously it had capped the voltage to allow higher boost which wouldn't matter on a car that isn't Map sensor dependent.

Removed the FCD and...............

Its starts, Runs, idles and EVERYTHING! :-)

I have yet to set up the TPS with st205 values and of course test drive it, best done in the daylight.

To say Im chuffed is a understatement.

In your opinion is it safe after trying the car to run some boost through it, should be safer than the st165 ecu and 430cc INJ?

Thanks for all your help on this one

MrWOT
11-13-2006, 09:32 PM
Let me be the first to say congratulations :)

So...

When can we expect your complete writeup to be done? ;)

**BETSY**
11-13-2006, 09:41 PM
He he he ..Thanks.

Happy to do a write up if you think it worth while? I have read several write ups on MR2 boards etc Im just so surprised no one else has come across this issue?

I still have the Charge cooler pump running full time which i would rather not have?
Chris- need to ground a wire or similar?
Still have the CC ecu connected.

' Win ' Wire maybe?

JBfromoz
11-13-2006, 10:21 PM
heh tidy work!
we had a simpler issue on the front cut when we got that started, we ripped the fuel tank pump loom etc out of a spare 162 body, plumbed up the fuel lines and wiring to the front clip, bought a st165 computer to replace the one the wreckers sold out of the cut, slapped the coil in off the spare 162, cos that got sold too, so im stuffin round getting this car cranking, checking spark wondering what the hell isnt working right cranking the guts out of it, trying to make it catch nothing,
theres some fuel leaking out of the bottom of the tank, so i see they've undone the bung to drain the tank, so it must mave been bone dry.
We had slapped 3-4 ltrs in there, but just wasnt enough, so i poured the other 10ltrs in and cranked some more.
still no dice, but ive got spark
check the fuel to the filter and crack it, yeah theres fuel so we must be close.
crank a few more times and theres a pop pop
starts to run on one, realll lumpy
my brothers looking at me like oh m god we bought a fucked motor, and i look back and say, now hold on there son, lets rev this puppy a little then it catches some more, sounds like running on 2.5 now shit yeah!
after another minute or so it had cleared all the air from the fuel lines and started sounding bloody awesome! (specially with the exhaust cut at the box and then it finally settled down to a perfect idle
youve had a lot more hard work in yours, but i think i know how you must be feeelin right about now...

congratulations!

ChrisD
11-14-2006, 02:41 AM
ahahahaha :laugh:

Well there ya go. I was almost on there with checking the MAP sensor voltage.

For the chargecooler pump. I personally prefer it to run full time, but thats me. If you are going to though, you'd have to replicate either the ST165 or the ST205 wiring schematic for that cct. If you have only the ST165 ic computer, then you will have to go with that.

As for driving the car...well it should be fine in theory...you are using the 540cc/min injectors right? I would check the the throttle position sensor quick...but all in all there should be no reason that it would have a problem. Start with lower boost, and see how she goes!

:)

**BETSY**
11-14-2006, 07:57 AM
Hey Chris, Im sure i had the st165 IC computer working correctly at one point.
Maybe the TPS being way out has something to do with it?
I used to be in the camp for having the CC pump run full time but imo it makes no sense sitting in cues heating ALL the fluid up.

bit mythed as to why it pumps full time at the moment.

I will take it out today for a shake down at actuator pressure and go from there, I'm using 540cc Inj.
I made 301BHP on the old 430cc injs so it should be somewhat safer!?

Stefanjdm185
11-14-2006, 12:55 PM
Congrats Steve, nice to see you have the old girl up and running again, will look forward to seeing the results on the strip,
I'll be doing something similar on my 185 very shortly but going the power fc route, so may call on you for some advice if thats ok

Stefan

**BETSY**
11-14-2006, 04:47 PM
Hey Stefan, sure thing the rev3 ecu is an interim set-up.
the Power FC is next on the list soon as im happy all is working well ;)

Luni
11-14-2006, 06:50 PM
Thats awesome man.

You know, I thought maybe you might have a fuel cut defender on there but I figured you pulled it off when you converted.

I didnt want to make you think either I thought you were stupid, or you think I was stupid for suggesting it LOL.

Good job tho. Glad its working for you :)

**BETSY**
11-16-2006, 08:08 AM
Hi, a small update..

The charge cooler pump runs as it should do on the st165.
There is certainly no speed cut on it, so far have seen 135 Leptons with no issue.

On my old set-up i ran 10' BTDC, swapping out the ecu and leaving the dizzy alone will see you with 16' BTDC!!

Been on a somewhat steep learning curve and feel i would like to do a short write up to help others out, whatch this space ;)

ChrisD
11-16-2006, 03:27 PM
Thats awesome.

Let me know how the overall driveability has/hasn't changed. Interested to hear your impressions.

:)

**BETSY**
11-19-2006, 09:22 PM
Hey all, Having completed some EXTENSIVE testing i can safely say the car is quicker! :lol:
brings a smile to my face and all under 1.1bar!
The gauges both scream around at an alarming rate and what with lots of bangs and popping its all good fun.
The car is so much smoother and you can plant your foot at just about any rpm and it pulls cleanly with no jerking or fuss, wave good bye to fuel dumping.
Overall im VERY VERY happy with this set-up and if for any reason i need to return it back to stock i just need to fit the 430cc injectors and pull the patch leads out.

Its amazing this doesn't get done more often, such a easy mod on the st185 too!

Thanks all for the help.
The car goes on the Rolling Road december 16th

ChrisD
11-19-2006, 10:47 PM
sweet!

Thats exactly what I was hoping you'd get out of it. The most annoying thing to me was the jerking at partial throttle transitions...the AFM just didnt handle it very well.

I am really hoping to start tuning my car within the next couple weeks.

**BETSY**
11-20-2006, 06:50 PM
Hey Chris, let me know how you get on.

The car starts and runs fine now, used it a fair bit over the last couple of days.
unsure weatjher to go for 1.2 bar at this stage, running just under 1.1 bar...
theoretically 1.2bar should be ok, walbro pump and uprated FPR, new fuel filter etc.
iirc i read somewhere that the rev3/205 run a lower rail fuel pressure though?

**BETSY**
11-20-2006, 10:17 PM
A quick write up

st205 ecu swap (http://adlracing.omegahost.co.uk/ST205ECUswap.doc)

**BETSY**
12-16-2006, 06:05 PM
Well, The ecu system appears to be doing its thing.
Had the car on the rollers today and got some good results!

333BHP and 321 Ib/Ft torque @ just under 1.1bar boost.
car running Rich but otherwise all ok :-)

ChrisD
12-17-2006, 04:23 AM
Very nice. And what were you at before?

Lagos
12-17-2006, 04:59 AM
thats an awesome project. congrads!

what turbo are you using?

**BETSY**
12-17-2006, 09:42 PM
There have been a few changes as well as the rev3 ecu system.
mainly turbo change and exhaust.

301bhp before

its a great mod and worth while doing.

I plugged in my Apexi Power FC which runs starts etc.
will get it mapped early next year and we shall see some real boost and figures ;)

Turbo is made by a UK firm, it has a single wastegate port to get over Boost creep associated with twin wastegate turbos.
360' Bearing and around 48mm compressor.

alltracman78
12-26-2006, 01:37 AM
I just wanted to add 2 bits of info.

First off, in regards to a vaccum leak with a MAP sensored engine.
If it's a small leak, it will raise the idle a bit.
Once it gets larger it will cause the idle to go up and down, with even the low point above regular idle.
It will not in any way cause a lower idle.

In regards to TE2 on the post revision ST185 and ST205 DLC1, it is a secondary diagnostic wire.
Basically when you jump TE2 and E1 you put the ECU into a more sensitive diagnostic mode that has a better chance of detecting things such as bad connections and such.
Definitly worth having.

To use it jump the 2, start the engine and drive around duplicating the conditions of your problem.
Once you have done this [you need to drive minimum of 6? MPH or you will set the speed sensor code], stop the engine, rejump TE1 and E1 and check for codes.
It also will flash sometimes while TE2 and E1 are jumped.

**BETSY**
07-08-2007, 12:37 AM
Hey Chris, Have you managed to get the rev3 system up and running yet?

Steve

ChrisD
07-09-2007, 07:18 PM
Hey Chris, Have you managed to get the rev3 system up and running yet?

Steve

I have! Up and running on the Power FC. It runs beautifully, so much more smooth, no stuttering, bucking, or hesitation like with the stock ECU and AFM. I've had it up to nearly 20psi without issue. Should be tuning for about 17psi or so.

**BETSY**
07-09-2007, 11:44 PM
Excellent smithers.....

sounds good dude.
I have yet to get my PFC mapped. Did you do your own mapping?

ChrisD
07-10-2007, 02:12 AM
Yep, my own street tuning. Mapping is still a work in progress. I've found the base map to be quite lean and timing very aggressive. Have you installed yours?

**BETSY**
07-10-2007, 07:59 AM
I have pluged the PFC in and run it around the block, on VERY low boost, it pops and bangs and sounds like a rally car!

I'm not brave enough to map it myself and i don't have a Wideband sensor.

I do need to get it in and mapped though, getting bored running around with just under 1.1 bar...lol

warwolf7
07-13-2007, 08:26 PM
If got that right, you installed the ECu from the third gen 3sgte, then unplugged it and plugged it into the a'pexi fc right? You installed the 3rd gen ecu because you've changed your afm sensor to an map sensor and wanted to be sure you wired eveything correctly and that everything was going fine before installing your apexi fc since you'd had a hard time telling if it's the apexi or the wiring the problem (if youd have one). right? Or is it because the apexi need to have the 3rd gen pinout? thanks

**BETSY**
10-08-2007, 10:13 PM
Update, got my power FC in and tuned to the car.
running 1.4bar and it rocks!

off to the rollers in two weeks so will hopefully get a good result there.

what sort of knock readings do you get Chris?

ChrisD
10-08-2007, 11:00 PM
Mine are fairly scary which is why I have been slow on tuning. I have seen up near 60 at times. What about you?

Lately mine seems to be much better, but I also retarded the timing quite a bit, and I'm running only 12psi.

:)

Sean
10-08-2007, 11:35 PM
I want to do this. Great thread!

**BETSY**
10-09-2007, 07:57 AM
hi Chris my peek is 21 on the knock reading but at the drag strip the water injection failed and i saw 55..scary stuff!
I had a guy come out and tune mine on the road with a WB sensor in the down pipe and det cans.
There is room for a bit more but the 540cc injectors are fairly near there limit now, raised the fuel presure by a small amount.

what is the next step up in injector size for the 185 rail? 680? 740?

**BETSY**
04-10-2013, 09:10 PM
WOW this was all done in 2007!?

well the car is still running and has covered several track days and run many miles on around 1.4 bar of boost..

however....

the car seems to of developed a idling issue..

Chris, have you still got your st165 running a PFC?

ChrisD
04-26-2013, 06:20 PM
Yes indeed. Although it is currently half apart right now. I did get it tuned in the end as well, was running great.

So was the car idling fine before, and now it is not? What might have changed?

BlueDragon
07-01-2013, 01:25 PM
I just switched to gen 3 ecu and it was idling fine for over a month now its way high and fluctuates. I am hoping its just the O2 sensor and not an intake gasket leak! I have an extra 02, but not the extra patience to try and do an intake gasket in-car! ARRRRGHHH
Maybe your O2 is going out too?

BlueDragon
07-22-2013, 05:09 AM
mine turned out to be the intake gasket, one of the nuts on the manifold had come all the way off and ruined it eventually. It was a pain to do it while in the car but it is possible. check the 2 nuts you can reach on the outside of the manifold and see if they are loose. I did the O2 first, and this was the result of my deductions.