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Apostle
06-22-2006, 04:50 AM
Alot of you must be saying ":wtf: another 5sfte? Swap it dammit". Well...... :thefinger ..... j/k. The truth is I don't have the space and tools to do that big of a job so im just gonna turbo the 5sfe for now. I've been going at it for about a week now, heres some pics.


Exhaust work (prolly the biggest pain of the ass in the project):
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0059.jpg

I'm also worried about that filter hitting the downpipe, i guess relocation...we'll see:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0062-1.jpg


Intercooler mounted:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0060-1.jpg


Turbo was a biatch gettin in, had to take the wastegate actuator off in order to get it in there, I'll be making a custom bracket for it soon:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0064-1.jpg


NGK iridiums .030 and 460cc injectors installed:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0066.jpg


As of 6/21/06:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0067.jpg


I'll be updating daily if not weekly, so stay tuned.

MrWOT
06-22-2006, 06:08 AM
Actually... if I wasn't planning on making more then 350hp I would just put the 3S G series head on the 5S block and keep the extra .2 displacement. The only reason I frown on the 5S over the 3S over that is the lack of oil squirters.

bloodredgt
06-22-2006, 06:20 AM
mmmmmmm 5sgte???? Good suggestion.


Apostle: I'll soon be in the same boat as you for the whole 5sfte thing... If you get a chance to get to a dyno, let us know the numbers you're putting down :bigthumbu

presure2
06-22-2006, 12:03 PM
Actually... if I wasn't planning on making more then 350hp I would just put the 3S G series head on the 5S block and keep the extra .2 displacement. The only reason I frown on the 5S over the 3S over that is the lack of oil squirters.
the only thing with the 5sgte is the fact that in order to run it, you need to at the minimum use the 3s ecu and harness, (standalone is the REAL solution.) its not just drop the 3s head on the 5s and go, like everyone tries to make it seem.
apostle, looking good, except for the cheapo manifold.
hope you enjoy taking that thing off, cause once your running, that thing is gonna fall to peices, and you'll be looking for a stock manifold...lol

Sean
06-22-2006, 05:38 PM
apostle, looking good, except for the cheapo manifold.
hope you enjoy taking that thing off, cause once your running, that thing is gonna fall to peices, and you'll be looking for a stock manifold...lol

I have to still yet to see actual proof of that manifold cracking. Any links? The mr2 board and this board seem guilty of spreading heresay that is unfounded in my opinion, their seems to be no actual evidence on the matter.

ScottGT-S
06-22-2006, 06:13 PM
couldnt you strengthen the welds yourself if your that worried?

brianforster
06-22-2006, 08:44 PM
im telling you right now you are gonna shoot yourself when taking that manifold off.. i dont know why anyone buys it.. tubular manifolds make power up top and log manifolds make power down low. not to mention the stock is cheaper and you could keep a heat shield on it and make it look stock/nice..

i spent 3 days trying to get that manifold off my car, it came with my motor and i said "ill swap it when i get around to it" those 3 days i was cursing the fact that i didnt change it over while my engine was sitting on a stand.

but good luck ;)

tealterror
06-23-2006, 04:18 AM
I guess tweak got some work to make us harness for a 5sgte.
I like the idea .

tealterror
06-23-2006, 04:20 AM
Apostle about your filter hitting your down pipe. I eliminated the dinky oil cooler from around the filter and got the pre 91 camry union removed the long one that accomodates for the oil cooler.

the short union allows you to screw the small genuine toyota oil cooler and you now have space to remove the oil filter without any problems

tealterror
06-23-2006, 04:22 AM
I give it two weeks before it cracks. I had it on and it cracked in 4 places I got the OEM 3sgte header

Snafu
06-23-2006, 06:56 AM
I give it two weeks before it cracks. I had it on and it cracked in 4 places I got the OEM 3sgte header

Eh, those chinese pieces are getting better, but I would definately re-weld a lot of the manifold.

Looks good from what I can tell. What are you using for engine managment? SMT, SAFC or Greddy Emanage?

Oh, and a quick note about oil squirters-

While they definately help with the stock cast pieces, they really arn't needed when running forged internals. Look at the LS/VTEC guys (B18 bottom end doesn't have oil squirters like the B18C/B16 blocks) making 5-600 horse power on a built/sleeved bottom end. Think of what you could do with a GE head, .4 liters more displacement and a closed deck/iron block? Insane, huh?

MrWOT
06-23-2006, 07:23 AM
The Honda guys also have full floating cylinders though, a big advantage with a built block. Because of the nature of siamesed bores, they do not distort evenly all the way around the bore because the cylinder is not surrounded completely by coolant like the Hondas are. So the more power you push, the harder it is to maintain shape and that makes it harder for the pistons to shed heat through the rings because the bore are no longer concentric. Honda has us beat in that respect, but on our side, we don't require bracing to make power BECAUSE of the siamesed design (irony). But once they have proper bracing, the floating design is far superior.

Snafu
06-23-2006, 07:49 AM
Let me get this straight -

Since Honda has an open deck design, they can cool through the rings more efficently? And since Toyota uses a closed deck design, the cylinders distort, thus causing an inefficiency in his distribution?

I thought only the B20 blocks utilized the "siamese" design, thus explaining why they tend to crack sleeves where the "siamese" joint occures.

http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a-5.jpg

Most sleeves that I've seen crack on Hondas have been from poor piston/wall clearances, combined with detonation. I thought only the B20 blocks utilized the "siamese" design, thus explaining why they tend to crack sleeves where the "siamese" joint occures.

Eh, I'm tired, so I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense.

MrWOT
06-23-2006, 03:52 PM
It's not the deck itself per-se that leads to the better cooling, but yes, you got the gist of it. A open deck means the cylinders are only attached to the block at the bottom of the cylinders, closed deck means attached at the top as well. You can, however have a closed deck, on a non-siamesed engine, which is exactly what the "block guards" do, they make it a closed deck, well.. semi closed anyway. A siamesed design vs. a non-siamesed design means that under the deck, there is complete seperation between the cylinders, coolant flows between them, so there are no spots that are significantly hotter then another part. In the siamesed design, the ends of the two middle cylinders are joined to the outer cylinders, and yes, the parts of the bore where the joints are distort differently then the portion that is exposed to the coolant.

Now pistons have three ways of shedding heat.

#1 Oil splashes the piston and carries heat away
#2 Intake charge absorbs heat and carries it away
#3 Through the piston rings

Once the bore distorts from enough heat so that the rings are no longer in adaquate contact to dissipate the huge heat you are dumping into them from high power, stuff goes downhill really fast.

So yes, properly braced "open deck" blocks have more heat capacity then siamesed designs, all other things being equal.

Snafu
06-23-2006, 06:27 PM
Gotcha. I've ripped apart my B18B1 block a few times and never noticed the seperation between the cylinders.

Thanks for the explaining it all to me.

zoni
06-27-2006, 02:33 AM
As per request on ToyotaNation.com...

Here are the Celica 5sfe 90-91 5sfe ecu pinouts...

For Manual Transmission:
http://3sgtecamry.com/Info_and_Tech_Documents/Celica/91Celica_5SFE_MT.jpg

For Automatic Transmission:
http://3sgtecamry.com/Info_and_Tech_Documents/Celica/91Celica_5SFE_AT.jpg

AND... Here are the Celica 5sfe 92-93 5sfe ecu pinouts...

For Manual Transmission:
http://3sgtecamry.com/Info_and_Tech_Documents/Celica/93Celica_5SFE_MT.jpg

For Automatic Transmission:
http://3sgtecamry.com/Info_and_Tech_Documents/Celica/93Celica_5SFE_AT.jpg

Apostle
06-27-2006, 04:56 AM
Zoni, your a life saver, this will save me 10 headaches on the wiring with the safc II, thanks. O yea I'll post some pics up 4 everyone when I get the chance, been real busy with work and this project.

zoni
06-27-2006, 05:51 AM
you got the 3sgte map sensor right? check out the diagrams for the 3sgte (MAP not AFM) and 3sfe in the safc2 manual. those pinouts should be close to the 5sfe one. most of them are similar except none of them have the right rpm2 pin.
if you need a copy of the manual in PDF, you can find it here...
http://www.apexi-usa.com/support_wiring.asp

Apostle
06-29-2006, 03:40 AM
Apostle about your filter hitting your down pipe. I eliminated the dinky oil cooler from around the filter and got the pre 91 camry union removed the long one that accomodates for the oil cooler.

the short union allows you to screw the small genuine toyota oil cooler and you now have space to remove the oil filter without any problems

I ended up going to the junkyard and grabbed a male to male 3sge non-oil cooled thread and traded my old setup in.


you got the 3sgte map sensor right? check out the diagrams for the 3sgte (MAP not AFM) and 3sfe in the safc2 manual. those pinouts should be close to the 5sfe one. most of them are similar except none of them have the right rpm2 pin.
if you need a copy of the manual in PDF, you can find it here...
http://www.apexi-usa.com/support_wiring.asp

I ended up getting a 1jzgte 2 bar map sensor, should work the same.


As for the update on my status with the 5sfte... Most of the hardware is done except for the walbro 255. This includes plumbing (oil/coolant) intercooler, piping, manifold, turbo, bov, fuel + ignition upgrades, exhaust, etc. Just need to get the gauges and safcII in and its off to the dyno.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0069.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0071.jpg

nuclearhappines
06-29-2006, 11:25 AM
from what i gather, the biggest reason the manifolds crack is because of the weight of the turbo. One guy on honda-tech has an on going thread of his 'xs' power turbo kit...

the thing had been on the car for some 9 months when i checked his thread and no cracks... he was even using their 'shitty' prone to blow turbos...

according to him the manifold cracks because it's not designed to carry the weight of the turbo, so by adding some turbo bracing ... he's avoided that (according to him)

tealterror
06-29-2006, 01:58 PM
when i had that manifold on, the turbo was supported and so was down pipe and a flex pipe shortly after where the exhaust mated to the down pipe and it still crack ! what I did notice however is, what ever they welded it with gave away first.

Apostle
06-30-2006, 02:29 AM
One quick question for the wiring, which one should I use for the RPM signal

The Ignitor would go for rpm1, but there is also an rpm2

Edit: LoL nevermind, rpm2 is optional. For anyone that has gotten access to their 5th gen ECU, please tell me the best way before i rip away my whole interior.

toyotatuner
07-02-2006, 02:25 AM
Its located behind your radio. Tell ya what, this project depends a few variables.
1. how small are you.
2. agility
3. flexibility
4. patience
5. family history of back problems

if you possess 1-4, you can do this without removing anything. It may take awhile, but it is possible. Its behind where the radio is, best way to get to it would probably be reaching your hand from the passanger side floor, and feeling around for it. its back there. trust me. Only at this point, should you consider proceding, barring 1-4 holds true.

godspeed.

alltracman78
07-02-2006, 02:51 AM
A better description of it's location would be the floorpan, on the exhaust tunnel, up against the firewall.
Right in the center of the front of the car.
Peel up your passenger carpet from left front.
you will see the connectors for the ecu.

Apostle
07-05-2006, 06:45 AM
I test drove the 5sfte to check for leaks today and found that the CHRA and the turbine housing is popping off from each other after driving. There is smoke coming out of the gap. I don't know much about turbo internals, but im wondering what originally sealed this gap in place and what I could do to fix it. If anyone knows I am in need of help. Thanks.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/turboleak.jpg

zoni
07-05-2006, 09:53 PM
looks to me as if it is missing the coupler hardware.
http://3sgtecamry.com/images/Tech_Pics/Turbo/turbocoupler.jpg

Apostle
07-05-2006, 10:21 PM
Nice, thanks alot. Atleast I dont have to take it off. Guess the seller on ebay that sold me the ct-26 forgot to give me that band coupler.

Apostle
07-10-2006, 05:44 AM
I finally got around to finishing the electronics in the interior. Which now concludes all the work. The wiring for the safc II was pretty straight forward, thanks for the diagram zoni. I have some pics below, as you can see I took the glove box out to fit my fat ass head, and pulled part of the carpet out, and there was the ECU. N' of course the gauges which are autometer c2 air/fuel, pyro and boost. Soon to get oil + water pressure. I need to take it for dyno tuning sometime this week, I'll post my numbers soon. Thanks for everyones help!

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0076.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0075.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/TRDApostle/DSCF0079.jpg

bloodredgt
07-11-2006, 05:46 AM
Lookin good man. How'd you mount the SAFCII? it looks like your cup holder is still intact.

Aust162
07-11-2006, 01:26 PM
Awesome work. very neat. :)

looking forward to hearing your results!

tealterror
07-11-2006, 02:22 PM
very clean set up

extremeskillz
07-11-2006, 04:38 PM
Very nice. makes me want to take up this project in the future. Keeping it clean is the way to go. NOW pressure wash your engine man! lol GOOD JOB

NDMstang65
07-11-2006, 04:58 PM
Looks awesome man!

bloodredgt
07-18-2006, 02:34 AM
any updates?