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gonen6
05-24-2006, 08:03 PM
I was talking to a friend about the 1st gen eclipse engine (4G63T) and the 5 gen Celica (3SGTE). Seeing how I just recently left the DSM scene he thinks that was one of the dumbest move you can make. ( Ths being the same freind that just replaced his timing belt twice in 1 month because he got a faulty one and destroyed his valves and what not. $500) I feel that the 3SGTE is far superior from a reliability stand point and because It's a true Japanesse made engine (America is more known for the muslce not the reliabilty) not to mention that 4G63T engines have two very costly common issues (T-belt and Crankwalking) and 3SGTE has none. Between the two I have found the Celica to be a lot easier to maintenance. What your opinion (non-bais please)

Slider
05-24-2006, 08:13 PM
Power wise, it's easier to get power out of the dsm but it suffers in reliability. The 3sgte is more reliable from what I've heard.

Rick89GTS
05-25-2006, 04:59 AM
Easier and way cheaper to coax the ponies out of the DSM, I agree.

hobbie2k
05-25-2006, 05:35 AM
Power wise, it's easier to get power out of the dsm but it suffers in reliability. The 3sgte is more reliable from what I've heard.

Ditto, dollar for dollar you'll get more ponies from the DSM, but you'll blow all your savings the first time that crank walks.

3sgte@daspeedof
05-25-2006, 05:47 AM
Its not that you can't get the same amount of power out of the 3sgte its that most owners are poor, there are more then a few making more then 300+ ponies, considering they span across MR2s, Celicas, Camrys, and even a very few brave corollas

ciento44
05-25-2006, 06:13 AM
The max power out of both engines is pretty similar, but it will take more money to get the 3sgte there, at least i think.

The 4g63t is not exactly what i'd call reliable, though, at least not the older ones.

I'd be more than happy with either engine, but even with my budget being almost nonexistant, i'd still rather try to coax power out of a 3sgte.

The solution to the conflict is simple. Build a monster 3sgte, and smoke him. Discussion over. :)

Lagos
05-25-2006, 06:21 AM
the 3s i way more realiable and better built.

the 4g63 has a HUGE aftermarket and comnuty support and it has a better stock turbo then the ct26. other then that, everything about the car and the motor will need to be replaced at one point or another. the tranny is also very bad and light years behind what we have in our cars. it might be cheap to make power with it, but in the end youll end up spending more money trying to keep up with all the stuff that breaks.

Cavanagh
05-25-2006, 08:45 PM
Haha i guess mine was too bais...but true.

GT4SOM
05-25-2006, 09:03 PM
I agree on the reliability point on the 3s. 4g motors aren't its just they suck with their crank walking problems. Atleast if the timing belt snaps in the 3s, who cares, its non interference anyways 8)

mtp_69_i
05-26-2006, 03:54 AM
isn't the 4gxx motor a mitsubishi engine???

gonen6
05-26-2006, 04:48 AM
isn't the 4gxx motor a mitsubishi engine???

If I remember correctly Mitsu parts, but it was built in the USA

mtp_69_i
05-26-2006, 05:21 AM
thrashed an old 4g37 around for 30,000 km without ever changing the oil or coolant (was 250,000km old when I got it). Couldn't fault it. Still got 10km/litre or better on the highway and only started blowing a little smoke right before I got rid of it (the body was falling off it). From that limited experience I don't reckon mitsi motors are too bad.

It did leak a fair bit of oil tho.

Which 4g have they got it the EV0s these days?

ciento44
05-26-2006, 03:05 PM
It's still a 4g63, but obviously a more evolved one.

Cavanagh
05-26-2006, 11:25 PM
Mitisubishis are crappy, don't bother with them.

Dr.Auto
05-27-2006, 01:47 AM
What your opinion (non-bais please)

Somehow i find that statment really funny :lolhittin

Only because you want to know my opinion, but yet you don't want it to be biased. But the problem is that my opinion is based on my "feelings" which leads to a conclusion and that conclusion is biased. Oh yeah, and that conclusion happens to be my opinion. :laugh:

Ok, ok, having said that I'll give you my "un-biased" opinion :lolhittin

Mitsubitchi sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wiggle:

And that's my opnion. I've dealt with too many stupid problems with them for them to gain my endorsement. They tend to be quite finiky in the reliability catagory where the Toyota is quite reliable even when modified properly.

Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh. I said properly. Maybe that's the problem with all the Mitsubitchis I've worked on, some dumb rice boy modified it improperly and hence all the problems. Who knows........ back to opinions.

Misibitchi SUCKS!!!!!!!! :D

alltracman78
05-27-2006, 03:55 AM
^hehe

Well, from a performance standpoint, the 4G63 has the 3SGTE beat.
Better turbo [as stated].
Better ecu.
Better rod:stroke.
WAY more aftermarket support.

It is ALOT cheaper to mod a 4G63 than a 3SGTE. Period. It has nothing to do with the owners being poorer. It takes more $$$ to do it.
Now, if you're shooting for 800hp, it doesn't matter. But for the normal enthusiast, it does.

Not to say the 3SGTE is worse. It can make just as much power.


The 4G63 is a stout engine. As long as you find an engine that doesn't have crank walk, and you keep the timing belt changed on time, you are fine. It can hold just as much power as a comparable 3SGTE.
Now the rest of the car is a different matter. Transmission included [already mentioned].

Personally though, I'm a Toyota man, so I would stick with the 3SGTE. :D

Playfortoday
05-27-2006, 04:50 AM
30,000 km without ever changing the oil or coolant (was 250,000km old when I got it). Couldn't fault it. Still got 10km/litre or better

That is about the same as my 50 furlongs per 270 drams.

I have had a couple of both engines. I had a NA talon that was bullet proof, and a talon tsi that ran consistent 13.1-2 second quarters on a K&N air filter, EBC, and straight though 3" with not cat or muffler. Never has a problem with either engine. The trannies were cruncjie though.

My two all-tracs are both slower than my talon tsi ever was. Even with lots and lots of mods. The main difference is the piece of shit ct26. I have about 8K in mods and I can only pull a 14.2 on the stock turbo. All I have left though is turbo, fuel, and some ign control and I will be playing with the big boys. Phase II coming in August.:D

MCcelica
05-27-2006, 02:19 PM
Even mitsushity powered Dodges have been pretty unreliable. My buddy had a 91 stealth es that had the same engine/tranny as the 3000gt and that thing burned as much oil as it did gas, not to mention that we lost count of how many parking lots he's had to leave it in and get it towed later on.

alltracman78
05-27-2006, 04:37 PM
I just wanted to add one more thing.
Regarding stock engines, the USDM 3SGTE makes as much power with 8 psi as the 4G63 does on 12.
That's with a crappier turbo.

SNapper
05-27-2006, 05:22 PM
mitsubishi sucks complete asshole. their motors blow so who gives and shit if it can make power. i seen them break constantly. why are you comparing it to a 2nd gen 3sgte though before wasn't the 4g63 in 94 eclipses? i dunno shit about eclipse just guessing. i know the break ;)

alltracman78
05-27-2006, 05:31 PM
The 4G63 is a STOUT engine.
I was in the 90-99 Eclipse, as well as the 93? ^Lancer Evo, AND the Galant VR4.

SNapper
05-28-2006, 09:23 AM
well not all 3sgte's have ct26's