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ty_44_69
04-01-2006, 04:32 PM
I was just talking to my buddy, who's Dad owns a Toyota dealership in town.
Apparently he had a meeting with a higher up who said they were bringing out a new car (old car) under the Toyota name. It has been keep very secretive to this date and would like to keep it that way.

As many of you may have been reading about the Supra for the last ohhhh 8 years, it is now unofficially official that it will be making it's return exactly 10 years after it was pulled. Meaning it will be in show room around the same time next year.

The details are still small, but apparently it's going to shock us ALL. He wouldn't give exact details he just wanted him to prep for it's return, and start redoing his showroom to showcase this car. The showroom will be upgraded with styling keys from the new supra.

Apparently the drivetrain will be similar to the one everyone mentions although I will not give exact details because I wasn't giving them. Meaning it should be approx. V8 with 400 rwhp like many have speculated. And the styling is similar but unlike those posted on the internet.
Either way to say the least, I personally could not be more excited especially when it is priced pretty close to the 350Z.....meaning the death for it!!! :owned:

It will be at the Detroit autoshow next year so everyone prepare.

FINALLY Toyota has done it again........can't wait!!!!!!

ty_44_69
04-01-2006, 05:55 PM
sorry guys I had to do it. I wish it was coming as much as most people but it's not. April Fools haha have a good day!!

iburnslabs
04-01-2006, 06:11 PM
uhhhhhhh actually i think it is really coming out by 2008 .......... pics form japan of that car are all over the place.... lol jokes on you! hehe

ty_44_69
04-01-2006, 08:21 PM
haha I've been following all that stuff for years now and every year people say "well 2006, 2007, 2008......"
every year that passes people push it back another year. Trust me I would like nothing more than to see it come out. If it does I'll be buying it. Any info I don't know about please pass along!!!

fiveSFE
04-01-2006, 08:39 PM
sorry guys I had to do it. I wish it was coming as much as most people but it's not. April Fools haha have a good day!!


you should of at least waiting till you got some replies on it


:thumbsdow :lolhittin

Luis C
04-01-2006, 08:43 PM
Amateur..... the Duke Nukem Forever alpha release Aprils fool post received over 40 replys... you should have waited

ty_44_69
04-01-2006, 08:54 PM
but it's only april fools until 12 pm.......therefore saying it after that time would have been breaking the april fools law!!! I did think of that though trust me

iburnslabs
04-02-2006, 04:34 AM
ok you ask and you shall recieve!!!! its on a local forum here in colorado,might have to sign up,. my friends forum. great place. come check out the link!!

http://forums.coloradoracing.net/index.php?showtopic=96144

Morwan
04-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Scion is supposed to be announcing a new sport coupe this month. I'm not holding my breath, it'll probably be all looks and no power.

Punisher
04-02-2006, 05:31 AM
So is that "new" supra a real deal or a joke? All because it is in jap mags doesn't mean shit.. don't mean the states will ever see it.

ty_44_69
04-02-2006, 04:12 PM
it's all photoshop people taking on car and keep modifying it to keep people on their sites. Nothing else. I won't believe it till I see it, because they have been talking about it like I said for years now.

Even edmunds.com posted a thing about it......so everyone believed that, they had pricing pictures etc.. etc.. and nothing came about so don't even look into it. You'll just get hooked on false hope.

Punisher
04-02-2006, 04:35 PM
I go back to my original statement though.. even IF the supra returns.. I bet the USA won't get it.

iburnslabs
04-02-2006, 04:38 PM
even IF the USA gets its.. i WONT buy it

ty_44_69
04-02-2006, 07:43 PM
I go back to my original statement though.. even IF the supra returns.. I bet the USA won't get

What? Why would they bring it back and not bring it over here? There is such a large market for that over here, especially since Toyota has nothing else to offer now too.


even IF the USA gets its.. i WONT buy it

I can understand not buying it because you already have a SICK supra but why wouldn't you buy a new one?

Punisher
04-02-2006, 08:22 PM
Um.. There is a large market for turbo charged sport coupes too.. and you don't see any alltracs or anything of that sort here..

And don't tell me there isn't.. with all of the fuckin WRX's and STi's around.. and SRT-4's.. etc.. all toyota is releasing is these piece of shit Scions and the now retired celica.. and the 7th gen was a piece of shit compared to the previous generations.

Not to mention what they did to the MR2.. MR2 Spyder? I mean come on wtf is that.. it sucked ass...

On the brighter side of things I got to look a Lotus Elise over today.. pretty kick ass car.. that is what Toyota should've done with the MR2.

All4Traction
04-02-2006, 08:50 PM
The guys at the Toyota dealership are very confident that the supra is coming out. There will be 3 versions, one will be the base, then i think the middle one is v6, then the premium sport one will be turboed.

ty_44_69
04-02-2006, 10:15 PM
The guys at the Toyota dealership are very confident that the supra is coming out. There will be 3 versions, one will be the base, then i think the middle one is v6, then the premium sport one will be turboed.

I would like to believe it but either they or you are sniffing too many exhaust fumes. Don't believe anything with Toyota anymore. I went to dealership the other day to ask them what kind of car would appeal to me. "Toyota Matrix S" I couldn't remember exact type he said....S = slow?? my grandparents have them.......and they are trying to tell me they appeal to me? come on!!!

Also I wouldn't plan on a turbo'd version of anything. For some reason now they super charge cars. "The supercharger you can get for scion tc." Not quite sure why they would do that when they are going for fuel economy all the time. You can't tell me supercharger is more efficient than turbo!

So keep digging up dirt about the Supra, it's nice to hear and think of.

=cJ=
04-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Superchargers are easier to slap on as an afterthought I think, less plumbing and whatnot, so cheaper for Toyota to do.

I would like to think we'll see a new Supra, and we'll be able to get them here in NZ too :D

ty_44_69
04-03-2006, 01:58 AM
ya that makes sense about the superchargers..... I wish Toyota never got this big, now they just care about the mass market. Bastards.

iburnslabs
04-03-2006, 02:03 AM
turbo motors cost too much at the dealer to get serviced... i put money on that it will be N/A and make a good amount of power... thats what most cars are going to nowadays... and thats why i wont buy it !!! also... it will be 50~80K im sure.. my car was 45K from the factory and no one bought them because they were too expensive.. times have changed yes i know but at the same time i think toyota is scared of losing money on the car AGAIN due to how much they have to charge for it.. they lost a TON of money on the MKIV ... but ya i wont be hjurt if it doesnt come out :)

ty_44_69
04-03-2006, 02:36 AM
Ya because you already have one. The best generation and model as well. If I were in your shoes I wouldn't care either. I would love one but the price....... :( I couldn't afford to drop that much in a car I could only drive in the summer.
How much you want for yours? 10000? hahahaha jk
but seriously how much would you sell it for?
Oh and if they do come out with one they will have no choice but to sell it for a price around the 350Z.
Also how disappointing. new IS350 everything about it is sick, but only 4 door version......come on, makes it hard to compete with the styling of a G35

T-spoon
04-03-2006, 04:55 PM
Um.. There is a large market for turbo charged sport coupes too.. and you don't see any alltracs or anything of that sort here..

And don't tell me there isn't.. with all of the fuckin WRX's and STi's around.. and SRT-4's.. etc.. all toyota is releasing is these piece of shit Scions and the now retired celica.. and the 7th gen was a piece of shit compared to the previous generations.

Not to mention what they did to the MR2.. MR2 Spyder? I mean come on wtf is that.. it sucked ass...

On the brighter side of things I got to look a Lotus Elise over today.. pretty kick ass car.. that is what Toyota should've done with the MR2.

The Spyder may not be fast in the 1/4, but it blows peoples' doors off where it's built to be fast. Trust me, I wish the stock drivetrain had more balls, but it sure can handle, which is what it was built to do. The mrS does not "suck ass". It's not as good as the Lotus, but it's half the price too.

iburnslabs
04-04-2006, 02:35 PM
ya the mr2 is def not made to be a 1/4 machine.. i dont like the look of it tho.. personal opinion i guess.. but ya ty_44_69....... i WOULD sell my supra for $27,900 are you interested? hehe and its too old to finiance... aint that a b**** only way to get a supra now is CASH or refinance your damn house... how sad . such an awesome reliable car.. mine has 153,000 miles on it original motor , just pulled the stock twins off that still boosted ok! but ya ive spent 30K restoring the damn thing. it smells BRAND NEW . not one old peice on the car except the door panels and the actual dash :)

ty_44_69
04-04-2006, 11:31 PM
$27900....hmm I might someday! How bout 17000 I can give it right now! haha

You have any pics of your supra I could see....internals, engine, everything?

iburnslabs
04-05-2006, 03:40 AM
http://22psi.com/images/carpics080805/

keep in mind.. this is BEFORE my house of kolor paint job and single turbo :)

iburnslabs
04-05-2006, 03:42 AM
if you look at all of them you will see where it got keyed... hence why i got a paint job!

ciento44
04-05-2006, 04:52 AM
Must..... find..... tissues.....

Kingsoup
04-05-2006, 01:37 PM
According to people who work at Dealerships from Supraforums, its supposed to be next year. Base is the 3.5 in the Avalon with 340hp or something in the Supra.

And the upper is a version if the UZ V-8 making 450 or something?

*sigh* I hope they think about affordability and don't make the same mistake as they did with the Mk4.

T-spoon
04-05-2006, 03:25 PM
According to people who work at Dealerships from Supraforums, its supposed to be next year. Base is the 3.5 in the Avalon with 340hp or something in the Supra.

And the upper is a version if the UZ V-8 making 450 or something?

*sigh* I hope they think about affordability and don't make the same mistake as they did with the Mk4.

Hopefully, the markup on the MK4s was absolutely insane, if they bring out another one.. they can't be marking it up 100+% straight off the boat/truck.

EDIT: Lernin 2 doo math gud

ty_44_69
04-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Keep digging guys anymore new news!! I want a nice new Toyota

hobbie2k
04-10-2006, 03:35 AM
You can't tell me supercharger is more efficient than turbo!

Why not? In the end, the amount of extra fuel going into the engine is determined by the amount of boost added. It doesn't matter where that boost comes from. Sure, a supercharger adds driveline mass and friction, but a turbo hinders intake and exhaust flow, requiring more throttle (more air), and therefore, more fuel. In terms of fuel economy, they're fairly close to the same.

However, in terms of purchase, installation, and maintenance cost, the supercharger is far more economical for a motor not designed for forced induction. The plumbing is simpler, there's no need to fiddle with the exhaust system, you don't have to drill the block for an oil tap, you can keep boost low (to protect the motor) while developing a lot more useful power. This is a big part of why TRD can sell superchargers that won't void your warranty.

I, personally, love the simplicity, user-friendliness, and sheer grunt a supercharger offers. Then again, I also love the mad rush of a turbo. And yet again, I always marvel at the incredible ingenuity and attention to detail that is required to make a powerful NA engine.

They're all good, as long as they work.

85gtsblackman
04-10-2006, 05:24 AM
anyone remember a long while back when i made up some kinda camry based sports car toyota was going to come out with and 3/4ths of the board beleaved me

:hehe:

ty_44_69
04-10-2006, 10:24 PM
well the new one has 268hp.......so if you look at what they offer right now under the Toyota name, you could consider that their only sports car. lol!

T-spoon
04-10-2006, 10:43 PM
well the new one has 268hp.......so if you look at what they offer right now under the Toyota name, you could consider that their only sports car. lol!

Unfortunately quite true.

angryyoungnpoor
04-11-2006, 02:41 AM
According to people who work at Dealerships from Supraforums, its supposed to be next year. Base is the 3.5 in the Avalon with 340hp or something in the Supra.

And the upper is a version if the UZ V-8 making 450 or something?

*sigh* I hope they think about affordability and don't make the same mistake as they did with the Mk4.

If it were coming out next year, they'd be advertising like mad now.

If anything they'd probly make it into a roadster, because everyone is coming out with roadsters these days.... Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, BMW Z4, etc etc.

ty_44_69
04-12-2006, 09:59 PM
If anything they'd probly make it into a roadster, because everyone is coming out with roadsters these days.... Saturn Sky, Pontiac Solstice, BMW Z4, etc etc.

haha lol.....I can't believe you mentioned sky and slostice....although I have to give the Americans credit, atleast they are willing to try everything now....unfortunately they still SUCK!
if they were going to bring out a roadster.....why not just bring back out the mr2 spyder...and give it a little more hp. Not that I would want it but it was pretty much already there.

T-spoon
04-12-2006, 10:16 PM
Supra.. roadster.... I drove a supra for a while.. I drive an mrS. One word for the supra roadster idea. No. :squint:

Punisher
04-12-2006, 10:23 PM
I think the lines get drawn for the 2wd toyota sports car at the MKIV supra and the SW20 MR2's and 5th gen celica.. maybe 6th gen.. somewhere in there for the celica's.

After that.. they sorta stopped paying attention to that market.. I think those models were really the top of what they had to offer.

As for 4WD it was definitly the ST205 and ST185 (For us US/Canada folks..)

Personally with the way gas prices are going.. I don't know if I really forsee a new Supra coming out... if they do it will be marketed purely to the rich sector. So don't expect it to be cheap.. and I'm sure it will really have a shitload of good things on it to attract those who are financially able.

I admire all of the new hybrids coming out and personally.. I hate to regret it.. but I think that is the way of the automobile now. I really doubt we will be seeing much more in the way of fast high HP affordable cars.. which really sorta sucks.. but I'm kinda learning to embrace the hybrid shit. THe '07 camry will be hybrid.. lexus has that hybrid SUV.. RX400h It ain't a bad idea.. you still get a high hp motor.. but when it ain't needed you run on electric..

Another nice thing is now Toyota produces cars in the USA or Japan.. which is really nice to see the car company I love supporting this country with it's assembly plants here.

Looking at the '07 Camry it got great reviews too.. a quality car.

T-spoon
04-12-2006, 10:41 PM
The new camry is decent, for what it is. After seeing them the last few weeks, all I can say is they're still 100% sedan.

Morwan
04-12-2006, 11:19 PM
Looking at the '07 Camry it got great reviews too.. a quality car.

Too bad they shit it up by only offering the V6 in bitchshift.

ty_44_69
04-12-2006, 11:20 PM
Another nice thing is now Toyota produces cars in the USA or Japan.. which is really nice to see the car company I love supporting this country with it's assembly plants here.

come on now, give the Canadians LOVE! we have a brand new Toyota plant opening in Ontario soon!

The thing about hybrids, they are good in the city but if you do the numbers, for the extra price, repairs (down the road which no one will know about for like 5 - 10 years), etc.. if you buy ex. 07 Camry and you drive a lot of highway miles the normal engine is a better deal, and get approx. the same gas mileage if not better on highway!!

My dad was thinking either G35
IS350
or Camry (decked out) because he has had two and loves em.
Either way Canadian dollars, cars done up completely:
If you get is350 approx 72k
g35 approx. 70k
camry approx 38k

camry has 268 hp, is350 306hp, g35 298hp (I think)
so for approx. half the price you get 30 less hp. Now I do understand the others are a lot sportier, but you could PIMP out that camry and achieve well more than either of the others and still be 20k under. Understand what I'm getting at?
All things considered I would rather have camry than either of the others!! well maybe not, but money wise it makes sense.

Morwan
04-13-2006, 01:40 AM
The problem with the Camry is that it's a FWD auto sedan. The IS350 only comes as an AWD automatic.

The G35 comes with a 6spd manual, as a coupe or sedan, and with RWD or AWD.

G35, no contest.

ty_44_69
04-13-2006, 02:17 AM
are you drunk????? is350 comes RWD ONLY
is250 comes with rwd and awd

I agree g35 is sweet but I was saying bang for buck with hp!

Punisher
04-13-2006, 02:37 AM
I'd like to see toyota making 6spd manuals standard equipment along with 6 or 7spd automatics.

And don't give me that "oh your saving this much by just going with straight up gas" crap.. it's that exact logic that now has america in a fuckin shit hole with gas prices.

Everyone thinks that "oh this car is cheap.. it sucks a lot of gas.. but it's cheap to buy so that is leaving me with a lot of money left over to spend on gas!" .. that doesn't work out...

Think about it like this... USA keeps using gas like we are.. no amount of money you save on a car is going to be worth it. We need to start thinking about the here and now.. The middle east is never going to stop fucking us in the ass and GW Cocksucker will never do a god damn thing about the oil/gas industry to help americans out..

SO I'd rather have a gas saving hybrid. If it costs a few thousand more.. who the fuck cares.. That's not what it is about.. it's about using less gas NOW.. get my drift?
Hyrbids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage.. because the electric part of the car is running more in the city. They still get the same gas mileage on the highway as the non-hybrid.

10yrs down the road you'll be selling that hybrid.. If you buy new cars.. you won't have that hybrid car for more than a few years.. so who the fuck cares?

T-spoon
04-13-2006, 05:18 PM
I'd like to see toyota making 6spd manuals standard equipment along with 6 or 7spd automatics.

And don't give me that "oh your saving this much by just going with straight up gas" crap.. it's that exact logic that now has america in a fuckin shit hole with gas prices.

Everyone thinks that "oh this car is cheap.. it sucks a lot of gas.. but it's cheap to buy so that is leaving me with a lot of money left over to spend on gas!" .. that doesn't work out...

Think about it like this... USA keeps using gas like we are.. no amount of money you save on a car is going to be worth it. We need to start thinking about the here and now.. The middle east is never going to stop fucking us in the ass and GW Cocksucker will never do a god damn thing about the oil/gas industry to help americans out..

SO I'd rather have a gas saving hybrid. If it costs a few thousand more.. who the fuck cares.. That's not what it is about.. it's about using less gas NOW.. get my drift?
Hyrbids typically get better city mileage than highway mileage.. because the electric part of the car is running more in the city. They still get the same gas mileage on the highway as the non-hybrid.

10yrs down the road you'll be selling that hybrid.. If you buy new cars.. you won't have that hybrid car for more than a few years.. so who the fuck cares?

1. If you buy a hybrid in the next several years, you WILL pay extra above the maintenance, fuel, and general upkeep. You will be paying back the maker for their r&d costs. Producing a regular old engine is cheap comparitively. Cheap cheap cheap. Hybrids will not be cost effective until the increased costs of development are paid back.

2. Fuel supply is artificially limited. We only ever have real shortages of refined ready-to-use fuel, not crude oil. We have plenty of crude oil, we produce a great deal in the country, and could get by with our supply without relying on middle east input. The government does not exist to make sure private companies sell things to you at prices you like. They ARE supposed to make sure that price setting does not eliminate competition, which by nature controls prices. The president does not have the authority to simply say, "I hereby decree that gas shall be no higher than 1.20 per gallon!" What he can do is push for legislation that enables us to produce more fuel, which he has done, but been blocked. Enviromentalists fight hard against any more refining capacity and any increase in collecting the resources we have access to. If you want to blame someone, blame those groups, not the president.

3. Because of #1, if you really want to make good use of your hybrid and actually save money, you will want to own it for more than 10 years. It's actually the opposite of what you're saying. Because the costs are frontloaded, the shorter time you own it, the more you lose. It's like buying any car off the lot, driving it 2 miles and selling it right back to the dealership. Huge waste of money. Saving on average gas mileage is a very long term idea, not a short term consideration.

Hybrids are becoming more practical, but it's still cheaper to have a good old economical non-hybrid. Things take time to change.

ty_44_69
04-13-2006, 07:08 PM
T-spoon was thinking more like I was.
The part about it being a long term investment is ABSOLUTELY correct. Short term you lose tons..long term you will make it back.

The point I was making was not that hybrids don't get better mileage, I know they do. I'm not opposed to buying one, I was stating.....if you read correctly.
Normal gas gets realitively the same mileage on the highway as a hybrid. SO as I said if you are going to drive a ton of miles on the highway IT IS SMARTER TO BUY A NORMAL GAS ENGINE. PERIOD.... It is proven to last. I'm not arguing city driving, which is what most people do.
The only reason there are spikes in gas isn't because the middle east is fucking us anywhere. The problem is we keep fucking around with them. I'm not arguing 9/11, but ever since that we can't just leave them be, and not impose our beliefs on them. I do not want this to get into a political war, because I hate those mofo's as much as anyone else so we'll leave it at that.
Back to the point: If hybrid is the future...which it is right now anyway, Toyota has shown signs they may be able to produce better power with hybrid technology, but Toyota and they way they are they won't utilize that power unless pushed by other company's doing so, because Toyota is about economy. Electric = instant torque w/ no very little rpm >>> ex. an electric drill. So one day we will see hybrid engines destroying V8's. Don't believe me? Look at that all battery powered supercar a couple of years ago.

Morwan
04-13-2006, 09:38 PM
I think the lines get drawn for the 2wd toyota sports car at the MKIV supra and the SW20 MR2's and 5th gen celica.. maybe 6th gen.. somewhere in there for the celica's.

I don't really get why you think the 5th gens are the best FWD Celicas. I don't know about fourth, but in terms of FWD Celicas, the 6th and 7th gens are miles ahead of the 5th gen. The 6th gen lost weight and had the same engines (7AFE instead of the 4AFE, but both had the 5SFE), and the 7th gen was probably the best Celica in terms of handling characteristics - it's the only sport compact that can even touch the Mini in AutoX.

hobbie2k
04-15-2006, 07:04 AM
1. If you buy a hybrid in the next several years, you WILL pay extra above the maintenance, fuel, and general upkeep. You will be paying back the maker for their r&d costs. Producing a regular old engine is cheap comparitively. Cheap cheap cheap. Hybrids will not be cost effective until the increased costs of development are paid back.

2. Fuel supply is artificially limited. We only ever have real shortages of refined ready-to-use fuel, not crude oil. We have plenty of crude oil, we produce a great deal in the country, and could get by with our supply without relying on middle east input. The government does not exist to make sure private companies sell things to you at prices you like. They ARE supposed to make sure that price setting does not eliminate competition, which by nature controls prices. The president does not have the authority to simply say, "I hereby decree that gas shall be no higher than 1.20 per gallon!" What he can do is push for legislation that enables us to produce more fuel, which he has done, but been blocked. Enviromentalists fight hard against any more refining capacity and any increase in collecting the resources we have access to. If you want to blame someone, blame those groups, not the president.

3. Because of #1, if you really want to make good use of your hybrid and actually save money, you will want to own it for more than 10 years. It's actually the opposite of what you're saying. Because the costs are frontloaded, the shorter time you own it, the more you lose. It's like buying any car off the lot, driving it 2 miles and selling it right back to the dealership. Huge waste of money. Saving on average gas mileage is a very long term idea, not a short term consideration.

Hybrids are becoming more practical, but it's still cheaper to have a good old economical non-hybrid. Things take time to change.

True, RIGHT NOW, the hybrid's aren't cost effective (and when you include possible maintenance costs down the road, current hybrids probably will never be), but it's the people who buy a hybrid now, just so they can say, "I own a hybrid," that are going to push further development of the idea to bring price down, and push effectiveness up. It's just like comparing a car from the 1910's to today's cars, or comparing a computer from the 1970's to today's. Hybrid technology is still in it's infancy, and it'll probably be a decade or more before they really become a worthwhile investment.

In the meantime, though, one can't argue that the technological masterpiece that is the Prius.

As for our dependance on oil and the awful environmentalists...there's a reason we fight hard against free industrial reign. Have you ever read descriptions of London during the Industrial Revolution? Black soot covered EVERYTHING, respiratory conditions were rampant, you or I would probably throw up if we got too close to the river. The place was a hell on earth. Sure, maybe gas would be a little cheaper (though I doubt it, more likely it would just be a few rich Americans [ie, the Bush family] screwing us out of our money rather than Arabians) but we'd be destroying forever part of our nation, just so that we can, for a fleeting moment, feel big in our SUVs...

As for our oil limitations, true, most of the supply fluctuations we experience occur in the refining, not drilling, process. But, it doesn't take a genius to see that our resources are limited. Technically, oil is a very long term renewable resource, but it takes millions of years to produce the amount we use every day. Someday we're gonna catch up.

If you don't believe me, look at Texas, it was once an incredibly rich source of oil, but now the vast majority has been tapped, and most of what's left isn't worth the investment. I've had people tell me that that's just on a local scale and I have to look at the worldwide picture. Well, "worldwide" is still just another local scale (it's just slightly larger), and if it can happen in Texas, it can happen to the world.

Another example, my home state, Minnesota. During WWII it was the world's richest source of iron ore. More than half of all the iron used by the allies came from MN alone. Unfortunately, it didn't last. Now all that's left are a few deposits of taconite and some very deep mine lakes. Once again, it's a local scale, and once again, the Earth is also a local scale, just a much bigger one. If it can happen to MN, it can happen to the Earth.

You may try to argue that this limited supply is exactly the reason we have to start drilling elsewhere, but that is only a short-term fix with long-term consequences. All it will do is delay the inevitable. So, since we know it's coming, why don't we fix the problem now, as opposed to ignoring it for another 50 years, and $4 a gallon would be a nice wake-up call for America.

T-spoon
04-15-2006, 03:32 PM
I agree with the bottom line of what you're saying Hobbie, if not the details. Texas is far from depleted in terms of oil. We have a LOT left completely untapped offshore alone. Yes the supply is limited, but it's not going to end any time soon. I am all for protecting the environment, my comments were'nt anti-environment. People can be and need to be aware of resource and environment issues, but it can be looked at dispationately, without needing exagerations (not implying that you're exagerating, just saying it happens a lot when talking about the issue). I agree completely that R&D needs to go forward and fossil fuel needs to be phased out, but in the meantime I don't think it helps to cripple what we currently rely on before we're ready to have it replaced. One might argue it has to happen before people will make the change, and there may be some truth to that, but it shouldn't be necessary. For the consumer, transitions like this are often a financial loss, which is what I was saying, it still needs to happen though. Hybrids are a rational transitional phase, not because we are short fossil fuel in a real sense, but because we need something to help bridge into not relying on the fossil fuel.

hobbie2k
04-15-2006, 04:58 PM
I agree with the bottom line of what you're saying Hobbie, if not the details. Texas is far from depleted in terms of oil. We have a LOT left completely untapped offshore alone. Yes the supply is limited, but it's not going to end any time soon. I am all for protecting the environment, my comments were'nt anti-environment. People can be and need to be aware of resource and environment issues, but it can be looked at dispationately, without needing exagerations (not implying that you're exagerating, just saying it happens a lot when talking about the issue). I agree completely that R&D needs to go forward and fossil fuel needs to be phased out, but in the meantime I don't think it helps to cripple what we currently rely on before we're ready to have it replaced. One might argue it has to happen before people will make the change, and there may be some truth to that, but it shouldn't be necessary. For the consumer, transitions like this are often a financial loss, which is what I was saying, it still needs to happen though. Hybrids are a rational transitional phase, not because we are short fossil fuel in a real sense, but because we need something to help bridge into not relying on the fossil fuel.

That is very true. Though I still think that the only real way to get people to change their habits of consumption is to shock them into it. I mean, look at the changes that happened to our cars from the late 70's to the mid 80's. That wouldn't have happened if it weren't for that "fuel crisis."

As for oil in the world, like you were saying about Texas, there is still some left, it's just harder to get to. Then there's more after that, it's just even harder to get to that. It's not like we'll just "run out" one day and suddenly there'll be millions of gas-less cars sitting on the side of the road. What will happen is as our reserves become harder to access, the relative cost compared to other technologies (which are becoming cheaper with development, like hybrid tech) will gradually make it a more attractive financial decision to switch. I'd just rather see it done sooner than later (like, before our gulf coast beaches and Alaskan wilderness are covered in a black, sticky goo).

That said, I suppose it's kinda hypocritical of me to complain, seeing as how I just bought a V6 powered Chevy Malibu Maxx, as opposed to an I4 powered Matrix or Vibe. It still gets decent milage, though, better than my 240,000 mile Accord did.