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Oz^
03-25-2006, 11:02 AM
Well I raced a 2000 celica last night about 5 times lol. every single time I would be ahead until about 90-100km/h in 3rd gear. We raced from a dead stop all 5 times. I realize the torque to HP ratio between these 2 cars. I am running a stock 5SFE right now with exhaust and aftermarket air intake. want a 3sgte even more now knowing how slow the newer celicas are. He was only about 15ft ahead of me each time we raced, wasnt pulling on me or anything. I was actually surprised we raced as many times as we did because i knew he had more HP, I was just doing it for the hell of it. any1 else got some 5s vs 2000+ celica stories?

edit: both our cars were standard.

T-spoon
03-25-2006, 02:43 PM
Was it a GT or GTS? I'm assuming GT, in which case, it doesn't theoretically have more HP and significantly less torque. But, it's also lighter. A 6speed gts should just annihilate you after it gets into lift.

Oz^
03-25-2006, 10:23 PM
oh i forgot to add, it was a GTS. he said it was 180hp. the GT is 140ish right?

Punisher
03-25-2006, 11:46 PM
Yea, idiot driver.. because I know someone that has a Matrix with the VVT-I engine or is it VVTL-I? Anyway it's pretty fricken fast.. faster than our stock 5th gens to say the least.

Specially being 6spd.. it would rape the S53 tranny.

deuce
03-26-2006, 12:24 AM
hmm i believe a Gts would kill a 5sfe easy.....kinda hard to believe it wasnt a GT celica

Oz^
03-26-2006, 12:42 AM
ya he must of been a bad driver, he only pulled about 20-30ft ahead and we kept that distance.

liljae8
03-26-2006, 12:53 AM
its a vvtl-i. my bro has a gts and it kicks ass. does about 14.8 in the quarter mile with just intake.

Slider
03-26-2006, 06:42 AM
A honda oddyssey will take a 5sfe 5th gen, hell most SUVs will, the guy must've really sucked at driving or there's something wrong with that car.

deuce
03-26-2006, 06:55 AM
5sfe are pretty verry reliable but not that powerful

jaded_driver
03-26-2006, 09:15 AM
dude i pwned a 5th gen on feet 0-100... no way...

or wait.. something wrong with that

fiveSFE
03-26-2006, 08:45 PM
i used to be stock gt's back when i had my 93, I also raced a guy from my school with a stock automatic gts, i owned him when he just left it in drive, but when he used that tiptronic he got me by a couple cars.

85gtsblackman
03-26-2006, 11:51 PM
7th gen

meh

the gt-s 7th gen barely pulls on a 00 tiburon

the gt is slower

i like my red car :hehe:

vip09
03-27-2006, 12:46 AM
7th gen

meh

the gt-s 7th gen barely pulls on a 00 tiburon

the gt is slower

i like my red car :hehe:

Barely pulls on a 2000 tiburon eh?? Lets see your '00 Tiburon keep up with my GT-S... you wouldn't have a chance.

The race with the 5sfe and the GT-S sounds about right for an automatic GT-S. The auto GT-S runs high 16's in the 1/4.. about the same as a stock 5sfe. But the auto GT-S would have the advantage on the highway.

85gtsblackman
03-27-2006, 01:21 AM
k fine

stock for stock

i worked at toyota

me and a few other techs set up a lil drag area , actally u could get up to about 100 or more ....in a camry....so it was fairly long

fine lemme go put an aftermarket tb, intake manifold, cams, high comp pistions,header and full exaust system and ill probally pull away from u if your that modded or u have nos

or ill just go put a 20r head thats converted to fi with a 304 cam on my 85

deuce
03-27-2006, 01:43 AM
would a Stock 5gen celica AWD beat easely a Celica 2000 GTs or will it struggle on the highway specially....

vip09
03-27-2006, 02:11 AM
k fine

stock for stock

i worked at toyota

me and a few other techs set up a lil drag area , actally u could get up to about 100 or more ....in a camry....so it was fairly long

fine lemme go put an aftermarket tb, intake manifold, cams, high comp pistions,header and full exaust system and ill probally pull away from u if your that modded or u have nos

or ill just go put a 20r head thats converted to fi with a 304 cam on my 85


I only have 2 mods. TPR Intake and Apex'i Power FC.. and stock exhaust unbolted. People with the same mods as me are running anywhere from 13.5-13.9 depending on weight reduction. I ran a 14.7 stock, I'm one of three people to get that time stock and have slips to prove it.. a lot of people have ran 14.8 and 14.9 stock in a GT-S. Take your Tiburon to the track and see what you run stock :) I just need to know the last three numbers, I already know what the first two will be. 16.xxx

Here's a vid of me racing my friend's '91 Celica GT. This was back when I was stock. He had intake and exhaust.

http://thumbs.streetfire.net/A390EFD6-C048-4EAD-96F5-9AAD9AE44121.jpg (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A390EFD6-C048-4EAD-96F5-9AAD9AE44121.htm)Click here to see Video (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A390EFD6-C048-4EAD-96F5-9AAD9AE44121.htm)

vip09
03-27-2006, 02:38 AM
would a Stock 5gen celica AWD beat easely a Celica 2000 GTs or will it struggle on the highway specially....

A stock alltrac will lose to a stock 7th gen gt-s. The alltrac runs low 15's stock, while the 7th gen gt-s runs high 14's.

deuce
03-27-2006, 03:03 AM
sweet sweet, never knew that stock celica Gts 2000 would beat an alltrac....

85gtsblackman
03-27-2006, 04:18 AM
a guy over on rd boards ran a 16 flat on a completely stock, except for an intake 99 tib

but those have the long geared trans

meh

i have my own way id build the 7th gen

but i have a 3rd gen so..... :wiggle:

vip09
03-27-2006, 09:27 AM
my friend andy has a 3rd gen GT. For now it's the daily driver while we're doing the turbo project on his '91 GT.

http://members.aol.com/vipmetal09/celicas01.jpg

johnL
03-27-2006, 09:42 PM
sweet sweet, never knew that stock celica Gts 2000 would beat an alltrac....

lol don't kid yourself to much there son. A simple boost controller and the GTS is dust in the 1/4. Even on the hwy the odds would even up real quick.

My opinion, you raced an auto GTS.

John L.

vip09
03-27-2006, 10:00 PM
lol don't kid yourself to much there son. A simple boost controller and the GTS is dust in the 1/4. Even on the hwy the odds would even up real quick.

My opinion, you raced an auto GTS.

John L.

You are quite mistaken there... a proper driver in a gt-s with intake, unbolted exhaust, and simple weight reduction will get low low 14's. Just a boost controller on an alltrac won't be leaving that in the dust by any means.

T-spoon
03-27-2006, 10:34 PM
You are quite mistaken there... a proper driver in a gt-s with intake, unbolted exhaust, and simple weight reduction will get low low 14's. Just a boost controller on an alltrac won't be leaving that in the dust by any means.

Come on guys, don't start that again. Does a boost controller equal more mods than that, or less mods? Real slippery slope to be arguing on. Stock for stock is the only comparison you can make, climate will affect things, driver will affect things, tires and surface will affect things.. put it this way, it's pretty close between the two. The GTS is very good in the high rpms, very mediocre as a launcher and low-end vehicle. The alltrac has boost and can launch with rock solid traction, but it's heavy. My alltrac pulled on auto GTS at high speed easily at night and held its own with a 6-speed, so fwiw... they're close, adding any mods whatsoever makes it hard to argue both ways.

vip09
03-28-2006, 03:30 AM
Come on guys, don't start that again. Does a boost controller equal more mods than that, or less mods? Real slippery slope to be arguing on. Stock for stock is the only comparison you can make, climate will affect things, driver will affect things, tires and surface will affect things.. put it this way, it's pretty close between the two. The GTS is very good in the high rpms, very mediocre as a launcher and low-end vehicle. The alltrac has boost and can launch with rock solid traction, but it's heavy. My alltrac pulled on auto GTS at high speed easily at night and held its own with a 6-speed, so fwiw... they're close, adding any mods whatsoever makes it hard to argue both ways.

I hope you raped the auto gt-s... it runs high 16's-low 17's in the 1/4.. it's slower than the auto GT.

Stock for stock, the 6 speed GT-S will win if it has a proper driver (it's a very difficult car to keep in the powerband).. The alltrac will have the upper hand in anything 1/8th mile and less from a stand still if it is running properly. The GT-S should leave it on the highway. That 700lb weight difference is crucial!!

johnL
03-28-2006, 02:28 PM
Lets go back to 1st grade in engine class here. 1lb of boost is equal to how many hp? Sean is going to kill me if he sees me bench racing. Forget it.... I am not even going to start. Vip get an alltrac, a boost contoller, unbolted exhaust and punched cat will own a new GTS hands down in the 1/4. Don't give me the weight factor, I know about weight and its effect on times. I have the lightest celica 5th gen GTS on this site.

John L.

Punisher
03-28-2006, 03:28 PM
Lets go back to 1st grade in engine class here. 1lb of boost is equal to how many hp? Sean is going to kill me if he sees me bench racing. Forget it.... I am not even going to start. Vip get an alltrac, a boost contoller, unbolted exhaust and punched cat will own a new GTS hands down in the 1/4. Don't give me the weight factor, I know about weight and its effect on times. I have the lightest celica 5th gen GTS on this site.

John L.


Bullshit.. I HAVE the lightest 5th gen GTS on this site.. It's a diecast model, bitch! :laugh:

Sean
03-28-2006, 06:28 PM
meh, its entertainment in here at least :hehe:

vip09
03-28-2006, 07:23 PM
Lets go back to 1st grade in engine class here. 1lb of boost is equal to how many hp? Sean is going to kill me if he sees me bench racing. Forget it.... I am not even going to start. Vip get an alltrac, a boost contoller, unbolted exhaust and punched cat will own a new GTS hands down in the 1/4. Don't give me the weight factor, I know about weight and its effect on times. I have the lightest celica 5th gen GTS on this site.

John L.

Sir, I have a '92 Alltrac and an '01 GT-S.

Sean
03-28-2006, 08:03 PM
Sir, I have a '92 Alltrac and an '01 GT-S.

Well, I'll say court is closed and the jury is in :lolhittin

johnL
03-29-2006, 02:44 PM
As far as your sig goes, to me it looks like your "alltrac" engine is sitting on an engine stand and not in your "alltrac". Get with the program.

John L.

vip09
03-29-2006, 04:16 PM
lol.. you guys really underestimate the 7th gen.

mtp_69_i
03-29-2006, 11:49 PM
the 2zz-ge in those 7th gen (correct me if I'm wrong here) is pushing out 140Kw (at the crank) while the 5th gen 3SGTE pushes 150kw (both stock). The 7th gen has a kerb weight of 1138kg, while the 5th gen has a curb weight of 1446kg.

Looking at stock power/weight ratios

7th gen - 123watts/kg
5th gen - 104watts/kg

stock to stock the 7th gen is all over the 5th gen in terms of power.

I'd love to drop a 2zz-ge into my 4th gen. We've got those motors here in either the 7th gen celi's OR in the newest corolla Sportivos. I've got my eyes peeled for local wrecks!

mtp_69_i
03-29-2006, 11:50 PM
ps. The 7th gen doesn't even boost to get that sort of power, Imagine what you could do with a supercharger....

Celicaguy13
03-30-2006, 12:31 AM
I Miss my 7th gen... :(

Edicius
03-30-2006, 05:26 AM
plus an alltrac will lose more power through the drivetrain.

stock vs. stock, in the top end, i'd have to give it to 7th gens.

3sgte@daspeedof
03-30-2006, 06:31 AM
The problem with the 7th gen is it doesn't make power untill it hits lift given the drivetrain loses in the alltrac it still put more power to the gound right off the bat, by the time that 7th gen hits lift its a drivers race with the 7th gen trying to play catch up keeping in mind the 7th gen driver needs to be able to keep it in lift, without miss shifting cuse it will go boom.

A good driver in a 7th gen gt-s with intake, unbolted exhaust, and simple weight reduction will get low low 14's. While an average driver in a 5th gen alltrac with the same mods & a boost controller will run that all day everyday

vip09
03-30-2006, 07:17 PM
A good driver in a 7th gen gt-s with intake, unbolted exhaust, and simple weight reduction will get low low 14's. While an average driver in a 5th gen alltrac with the same mods & a boost controller will run that all day everyday

Exactly, that's the point that I was trying to make. Earlier in the thread it was said that the Alltrac would "leave the 7th gen in the dust". But this just isn't the case.. it'd be really close. It could go either way depending on the driver in the GT-S and how much boost the Alltrac is running.

fiveSFE
03-31-2006, 03:59 AM
oh yeah??? well my honduh civic will own both of em1!!!!111

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y108/fiveSFE/civic.jpg

mtp_69_i
03-31-2006, 04:53 AM
huh?

Oz^
04-01-2006, 07:58 AM
its a vvtl-i. my bro has a gts and it kicks ass. does about 14.8 in the quarter mile with just intake.

So doesnt the 5s do about 16ish in the quarter mile, standard. so, I dont know how that would compare on how much of a lead he gained. The only thing is he had 1 more extra passenger than me. But I doubt that would affect the GTS that much vs my 5s. My 5s should be running in top shape, advanced tune-up. seems to pull pretty good in high gears. As i said b4, we raced about 5 times in different spots. every single time I pulled ahead off the start until about 80-90k in 3rd. The only thing I question is maybe it was a GT with mods which made it 180hp, not sure, didnt confirm this :(.

vip09
04-01-2006, 07:56 PM
So doesnt the 5s do about 16ish in the quarter mile, standard. so, I dont know how that would compare on how much of a lead he gained. The only thing is he had 1 more extra passenger than me. But I doubt that would affect the GTS that much vs my 5s. My 5s should be running in top shape, advanced tune-up. seems to pull pretty good in high gears. As i said b4, we raced about 5 times in different spots. every single time I pulled ahead off the start until about 80-90k in 3rd. The only thing I question is maybe it was a GT with mods which made it 180hp, not sure, didnt confirm this :(.

It was an auto gt-s that you raced. They run 16's in the 1/4. There is no GT making 180hp n/a. It would be pointless to build up the 1zz for n/a purposes.

xeril
04-01-2006, 08:47 PM
It was an auto gt-s that you raced. They run 16's in the 1/4. There is no GT making 180hp n/a. It would be pointless to build up the 1zz for n/a purposes.

i wouldn't say pointless. i remember someone built one up to put down 160whp or so.. and the powerband was realllly nice. anywho.. alltracs are slow. now.. a swapped 5th gen @ 15psi vs. a 7th gen gts with tuned pfc/intake/exhaust.... THAT would be a drivers race :)

91celicagts
04-01-2006, 09:08 PM
i wouldn't say pointless. i remember someone built one up to put down 160whp or so.. and the powerband was realllly nice. anywho.. alltracs are slow. now.. a swapped 5th gen @ 15psi vs. a 7th gen gts with tuned pfc/intake/exhaust.... THAT would be a drivers race :)

u guys keep correcting urself here ok why not do jus a stock on stock. 91 alltrac running 9 lbs of boost(give or take a few pounds) NO MODS vs a 7th gen gts NO mods no exhaust intake nothing. then see the outcome other wise this thread is pointless. u guys keep saying oh a all trac with these upgrades would beat this car. and oh a 7th gen celica with these upgrades would beat this kinda car.

vip09
04-01-2006, 10:36 PM
u guys keep correcting urself here ok why not do jus a stock on stock. 91 alltrac running 9 lbs of boost(give or take a few pounds) NO MODS vs a 7th gen gts NO mods no exhaust intake nothing. then see the outcome other wise this thread is pointless. u guys keep saying oh a all trac with these upgrades would beat this car. and oh a 7th gen celica with these upgrades would beat this kinda car.

the 7th gen gt-s will win stock vs. stock in the 1/4.

undecided
04-02-2006, 02:36 AM
my r6 will pwn all ur cars, there i started some more bench racin :hehe:

vip09
04-02-2006, 03:14 AM
i wouldn't say pointless. i remember someone built one up to put down 160whp or so.. and the powerband was realllly nice.

Most 2zz's dyno 160whp with an intake, some dyno that high stock. These are the mods it took the 1zz to get 160whp.

The setup:
Wiseco 12.5:1 79.5mm pistons (he runs 100 octane unleaded)
MWR stage 4 1zz short block
MWR Stage 3 cylinder head
MWR custom long tube 4:1 header
PFC
Stock cams
Modified AEM intake
VERY high flow exhaust

The results:
166 whp @ 6300 rpm
143 wtq @ 5600 rpm

deuce
04-02-2006, 06:18 AM
how much is that at the crank?// and would a swap 3sgte celica would have a better quater mile than your ride?

ciento44
04-02-2006, 07:56 AM
Yes, a swap 3sgte Celica would have a better quarter mile time than that, depending on driver, of course. With just the swap, your average 5th gen can expect to run low 14s, usually 14.1 or so. If you're an amazing driver, with good tires, 13.9 may be a possibility.

undecided
04-02-2006, 08:53 AM
man u guys just ignore trolls im hungray!

xeril
04-02-2006, 08:53 AM
Yes, a swap 3sgte Celica would have a better quarter mile time than that, depending on driver, of course. With just the swap, your average 5th gen can expect to run low 14s, usually 14.1 or so. If you're an amazing driver, with good tires, 13.9 may be a possibility.

i semi-agree, semi-disagree with this statement. it all depends whats done with the 3sgte. boost controller? 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust?

i know with slipping clutch and running about 10psi, my car did a 15.6@92mph. that was with a spectacular 2.5s 60 foot. (going 10mph at 6000rpm :ugh: ) i'm sure if my clutch were functioning correctly, i could have ran somewhere around a 14.7-15.3s quarter mile time.

3sgte@daspeedof
04-02-2006, 10:57 AM
is your s stock 3s, or should I call you grandma :laugh:

xeril
04-08-2006, 08:41 AM
probably both. was first time at track. i'll go back once more before i change out clutch.

ciento44
04-08-2006, 08:47 AM
i semi-agree, semi-disagree with this statement. it all depends whats done with the 3sgte. boost controller? 2.5 or 3 inch exhaust?

i know with slipping clutch and running about 10psi, my car did a 15.6@92mph. that was with a spectacular 2.5s 60 foot. (going 10mph at 6000rpm :ugh: ) i'm sure if my clutch were functioning correctly, i could have ran somewhere around a 14.7-15.3s quarter mile time.

Stock, no LSD, good clutch :laugh:, exhaust won't matter a WHOLE lot with the stock one, but let's just say 3" for arguments sake. No boost controller.

Should get you to very low 14s, or high 13s.

3sgte@daspeedof
04-08-2006, 09:13 PM
I've gotta stock 3s, no boost controller, with lsd, & a 2" exhaust. i wonder what I'll run at the track this summer.

Sean what do you run at the track?

ciento44
04-08-2006, 10:57 PM
I've gotta stock 3s, no boost controller, with lsd, & a 2" exhaust. i wonder what I'll run at the track this summer.

Sean what do you run at the track?

If it's in good tune, and you're a good driver, which i'm assuming you are, i stand by my estimate. :)

I should be able to test this myself by the end of the summer.

Also, as partial proof/convincing:

My buddy's 1997 Neon ACR runs 13.2 throught the quarter on low boost, at which poing he's making about 230HP. Granted, he weighs a little less, but still...

3sgte@daspeedof
04-09-2006, 01:55 AM
you guys are making me want to install that boost controller I have sitting here on my desk

BlueDragon
04-16-2006, 11:09 PM
I'll hafta get some slips for you guys... The alltrac should be boost controlled, maybe with f-con on depending if I need it or not thats probably all for now. The GT will have just a header and intake... Im dieng to see what the times will be.

99celiGT
01-25-2009, 09:15 PM
6th gen PWNS all
7th gen is ugly (what happened to the rally style)

Cavanagh
01-26-2009, 02:27 AM
This thread is not old enough!!
How did you find this? ha

VikingJZ
01-26-2009, 04:08 PM
New member is new

99celiGT
01-27-2009, 04:46 PM
This thread is not old enough!!
How did you find this? ha

i was bored :smokin:

MCcelica
01-27-2009, 06:45 PM
7th gen is ugly

You're ugly. Now what? Gtfo

Idiot Stick
01-28-2009, 04:06 PM
6th gen PWNS all
7th gen is ugly (what happened to the rally style)
Hows the 6th gen pwn all?

Without swapping, the 6th gens that you americans got where some of the SLOWEST celicas ever made!

99celiGT
01-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Hows the 6th gen pwn all?

Without swapping, the 6th gens that you americans got where some of the SLOWEST celicas ever made!

yes its slow but its still the best lookin celica of all the gens, and all it takes is to have a swap and then it becomes a WTFPWN-mobile

SURRENDER TO THE 6GEN :bowdown:

99celiGT
01-28-2009, 09:53 PM
You're ugly. Now what? Gtfo

thanks my selfesteem is already rock bottom, now imma just jump off a roof

7gen is still ugly

Cavanagh
01-28-2009, 09:57 PM
6th gen being the best looking can be EASILY debatable.

celica91gts
01-29-2009, 01:36 AM
thanks my selfesteem is already rock bottom, now imma just jump off a roof

7gen is still ugly

you we're told that by a guy that has both the 6th and 7th gen. i think they both look good. can't we all get along? =)

Blackcloud
01-29-2009, 05:32 PM
only 7th gen ive drivin was lunis gt.

partyball
01-30-2009, 01:44 PM
Seems like the 7th gen is like the red headed step child of the family.

T-spoon
02-04-2009, 06:14 PM
Seems like the 7th gen is like the red headed step child of the family.

Well, it's the youngest, and sure looks like it had a different daddy :hehe:

BabyBear
02-11-2009, 12:36 AM
I miss my 7th gen, but it had collapsed compression rings and wasn't worth putting a new motor into it... its now somewhere in Mexico I'm told.

wizzards581
02-14-2009, 01:31 AM
7th gen GTS w/ trd kit looks better then 6th gen... without the GT-Four cosmetic parts the 6th gen looks like a smiling 4 eyed frog...