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View Full Version : New 4thGen Celica - little help?



mtp_69_i
02-19-2006, 12:51 PM
***this thread has become a troubleshooting post and should probably be put in the trouble shooting section - sorry admin***

Hey Celica heads,
I bought an 88 Celica ST (here in sunny Adelaide, South Australia :bigthumbu ) just the other week and am really enjoying my new ride. She's stock standard accept for a nice K&N pod I put on there and some Navara arctics.

I've changed oil/filter and also want to drop the gearbox oil but wasn't able to see an obvious drain plug. I've got a small (hopefully) shifting issue and want to replace the gearoil. I've read great things about Pennzoil Synchromesh but don't see it on the Aussie Pennzoil webpage. Any aussies out there now if it's available here OR of another good gearbox oil for an 88 ST?

Also, car is so low! Last ride was an 85 Mitsi Nimbus (don't bag it til you've tried one for a while :saythat: :woot: ) and compared to that this is like riding a street-luge. I'd like to beef up the rim diameter a bit to about a 16 or so. Can anyone tell me what all this mumbo jumbo bout lug patterns and sizes is about? The celi is a 4 lug pattern and I guess I need to know what the distance is across from corner to corner - short of going out with the ruler, can anyone let me know what sorta wheels I ought to be looking at lug-compatability-wise?

Cheers, Pete.

Sorry for posting in general but I wasn't sure how soon I'd get a response.

4thgenceli
02-19-2006, 01:00 PM
No prob..(this could of gone in the 4th gen section but oh well).


The lug spacing is a 4x100 bolt pattern. To drain the tranny fluid, there's a bolt on the front of the tranny, unbolt that and it should pour right out. You can also fill up via that hole, or do it the way I did. Leave that drain plug out also take out the reverse indicator(on TOP of tranny, usually white). Fill there with fluid until steady stream comes out of hole on FRONT of tranny, plug both holes and GTG. (sry, no pix).

mtp_69_i
02-20-2006, 07:46 AM
Hey 4thgenceli,
Sorry to read about the breakin! I've got to get around to getting a descent alarm system!

Regarding the gearbox oil tho, I wonder... if I'm draining out of that hole, how can the box be full again once I fill up to it?

I know the gearbox takes about 2.6L of fluid (from dry). Will draining from that plug empty it so I can just put in another 2.6-odd litres via the reverse sensor?

Do the moderators move threads? I'd be happy to transfer over to the 4th Gen forum, sorry for going into general, I wasn't sure how long it would take to get a response.

Cheers.

4thgenceli
02-20-2006, 07:58 AM
Na.. no biggy.

<- mod of 4thgen section :hehe:

You don't fully fill up the tranny. Usually, you fill up where you drain it. It's just such a PITA to do that, it's easier to fill this way.

Slider
02-20-2006, 09:11 AM
You could also try picking up GM Synchromesh from any GM Stealership..erm I mean dealership. It's the same stuff as the Pennzoil synchromesh, just they probably sell it for a lot more.

alltracman78
02-20-2006, 12:03 PM
The Penziol stuff is ALOT cheaper.....

mtp_69_i
02-20-2006, 09:58 PM
yeah, I'm working on getting some of the Pennzoil stuff but the Australian 'zoil website doesn't list it and they haven't emailed me back (sent 'em one on friday). I may have to get one of the local rev-head shops to order some in from the good ol' USofA. I've got 4litres of Castrol 80W at the moment, I might drop some of that in and see if I get an improvement.

I'm suspicious the 'box probably needs a rebuild, car has a slight shudder on easing off the clutch when taking off in first (if I do it too slowly) and this crunch going back into 2nd from 3rd at speed isn't good either. I'll see if this oil change gets me by for a while so I can buy a schmick alarm setup now to keep thieving bastards out it :nono:.

At any rate, I'm loving this car maaann!

schmooot
02-23-2006, 05:25 AM
No prob..(this could of gone in the 4th gen section but oh well).


The lug spacing is a 4x100 bolt pattern. To drain the tranny fluid, there's a bolt on the front of the tranny, unbolt that and it should pour right out. You can also fill up via that hole, or do it the way I did Leave that drain plug out also take out the reverse indicator(on TOP of tranny, usually white). Fill there with fluid until steady stream comes out of hole on FRONT of tranny, plug both holes and GTG. (sry, no pix).

HAHAHahhaha that makes no sense.....sorry I found it funny :D , there is a large bolt halfway down the front of the tranny, you use this hole to fill the tranny (and check the fluid level as it should come to the bottom of the hole). But the drain hole is lower down

Here is the filler bolt (the motor/tranny is tilted forward mind you) and I believe the drain is lower and to the right you can kind of see it in the picture.

edit: nm that is not the drain....the drain is on the end facing the wheel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/schmooot/celica%20stuff/trannyfill.jpg

mtp_69_i
02-23-2006, 07:22 AM
Perfect pic schmoot, that's what I saw when I was under changing the oil but I wasn't sure cos neither looks like it would completely drain the box. It's a pain too cos of the plastic protective cover (faring??) that's obscuring the box from prying hands (and protecting it from shit on the road no doubt :hehe: ). I'm going under again this weekend to do the box oil, thanks again for your post, very helpful!

mtp_69_i
02-27-2006, 02:24 AM
Hey Schmoot, so I went under the car and opened the bolt up you've got circled in red (aka - the filler bolt). Out came about 500 - 1000mls (half a quart or more) of red fluid which I'm assuming is the crappy Dextron Auto trans crap they spec'd as manual gearbox fluid. When I opened the smaller bolt to the right of this bolt (and approx .5 of a centimeter lower?) trannyfill.jpg i've circled it in green, nothing came out, making me suspect that this isn't actually the drain bolt and that the filler bolt is actually the drain bolt. The thread for the filler bolt goes into the gearbox on an upward angle of about 45` or so. I wonder if you're supposed to drain from this hole with the back wheels up and then lower the rear and raise the front and fill?

Has anybody out there ever changed their manual transmission fluid with the box still in the car (4thGenCeli??)? I want to do a total dump, get rid of ALL THE DEXTRON CRAP and replace with some C@strol 80W gear oil. If yes please indicate on Schmoots lovely picture where they drain, what position the car is in during drain, and where they fill and what position the car is in for the fill.

4thgenceli
02-27-2006, 02:40 AM
Your pic didn't load.

Yes you are supposed to fill it back up via the same hole it drained out of(seems impossible, but it's not, just very hard).

I filled mine up via this hole here.(circled in yellow).
http://www.my4thgencelica.net/trannyfill.jpg

I belive that's the right hole.. it should be the reverse sensor or sumthing like that(it has a white sensor screwed in it).

mtp_69_i
02-27-2006, 04:35 AM
how did you know how much you were putting in?

How did you know how much was left in the box before refilling?

I want everything out so I can replace it with different gear oil. I opened the red circled plug yesterday and less than half the total gearbox volume (2.6 quarts) came out, I couldn't refill it any more so either there was too much in there to start with, or i've only got 2 quarts or so of the Dextron crap still in there.

Filling from the reverse plug doesn't seem like a fix to me unless you know how much you need to add.

Too much is gonna start sucking power as the gears struggle to swim through the excess oil no?

mtp_69_i
02-27-2006, 07:02 AM
RIGHT! :rant:

I finally got this sorted.

The drain bolt is located right at the lowest part of the gearbox, facing the left front wheel. It's a big fucker of a bolt and when you open it ~2.6 quarts. THAT"S RIGHT 2.6 quarts of gearbox oil, comes pouring out!

None of this:

"Yes you are supposed to fill it back up via the same hole it drained out of(seems impossible, but it's not, just very hard)."

OR

"there's a bolt on the front of the tranny, unbolt that and it should pour right out."

Unless there is something vastly different between the 162 Celica ST with the 3SFE motor and 5speed box sold here (AUSTRALIA) and the one sold in the USA, the bolt to empty your gearbox is located on the lowest REPEAT! LOWEST part of your box and faces, REPEAT! FACES! the left wheel.

Sorry, I'll quit ranting :P . lol, it's just funny how a simply thing like a gearbox oil change can become such a fricken saga with just a bit of the wrong info. AND LISTEN! I don't blame anyone here cos you were all great chipping in and lending a hand, I really appreciated it! Even the bloody Haynes - Guide to your Celica 86-90, had no fucking idea how to change the oil (heaps about the Auto box tho, useless pricks).

Any way, so I could put a thread in the maintenance bit if y'all thought it was worth it - specially with the number of "my box grinds" etc threads that crop up - giving step by step instructions for the oil change. Otherwise I guess people will find this thread and after they finish pissing themselves laughing a my stupid rant they can go and work it out for themselves.

Suffice to say - BIG FUCKING BOLT AT THE LOWEST PART OF THE BOX DAMMIT!

Cheers
Out

schmooot
04-01-2006, 08:57 PM
I'm sorry but I just have to clear up some misinformation

in my earlier post with the picture I said "I believe the drain is lower and to the right" well I was wrong that obviously isnt the drain plug as we've discovered but the drain is actually where you said facing the wheel as I've circled

But the filler hole remains the same, the bolt at the front. You have to fill it with some sort of forced system as the hole does point at a down angle when the car is sitting flat (which is the position it should be in). Some gear oil containers have a spout and you can tilt and squeeze the bottle or use a funnel with a long flexible end. I would also highly recommend some full synthetic 75W-90 gear oil...very good stuff for older trannies with worn synchros and such




And to clear up some of your questions

how did you know how much you were putting in?
fill until it comes out of the filler hole (whether filling from the reverse sensor hole or from the filler hole)





How did you know how much was left in the box before refilling?
since we've discovered where the actual drain plug is, it should be empty





I want everything out so I can replace it with different gear oil. I opened the red circled plug yesterday and less than half the total gearbox volume (2.6 quarts) came out, I couldn't refill it any more so either there was too much in there to start with, or i've only got 2 quarts or so of the Dextron crap still in there.
the reason you had fluid come out when you opened the filler plug is because there was too much fluid in the transmission (ie. someone probably filled it either with the front of the car jacked up or filled from the top by removing the sensor)





Filling from the reverse plug doesn't seem like a fix to me unless you know how much you need to add.
leave the filler plug out and then you will know when to stop (when it starts coming out)





Too much is gonna start sucking power as the gears struggle to swim through the excess oil no?
yes, it will also froth and churn and become less effective




Now that we've cleared that up there is an exploded diagram in the haynes manual that shows both plugs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/schmooot/various%20posted/trannyscan.jpg


Now all the info in this thread should be correct for a 4th gen 5spd gearbox

mtp_69_i
04-03-2006, 02:11 AM
good work Schmooot. Did you read my post above your most recent?

schmooot
04-07-2006, 01:00 AM
good work Schmooot. Did you read my post above your most recent?
yah thats what prompted my response. If someone were to read through the thread looking for answers they would probably come out of it more confused than when they went in. Not anymore