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View Full Version : Shifting with a Automatic?



White91GT
01-14-2006, 01:29 AM
:wtf: Has anyone ever done this? I been considering doing a swap and a buddy of mine said " why do a swap when you can just watch the shift point in certain driving situations and when you want to, like for instance race start in L(1st) then shift to 2(2nd) then 3(D) and 4(overdrive)" He clams its like having a shift-tronic transmition. I think that this cant be good for the transmition or the engine. Im not about to try without some feedback.

BeeHay
01-14-2006, 01:43 AM
i've always just left mine with overdrive off intil i reach about 55, then i click her in.

:D

Ricksta
01-14-2006, 03:03 AM
shit you got no power on take off if overdrive is off that long

PhillyDRFT
01-14-2006, 03:08 AM
thats still only 4 gears.. ive seen people do it before, you get made fun of verry badly for doing it around here. I just dont like the idea that theres no clutch. also WOT will delay the shift in an automatic untill you let your foot off the gas, all depends on your driving style. ... but ill just say this nothing feels better than having a clutch and 5 gears

BeeHay
01-14-2006, 04:00 AM
yea, i dont mash the gas through the floor...i just cruise...

i couldn't race if i wanted to.

Edicius
01-14-2006, 04:31 AM
but ill just say this nothing feels better than having a clutch and 5 gears

a clutch and 6 gears?


i would believe shifting an auto like that would cause tranny and engine temps to rise depending on how you shift.

Murgatroy
01-14-2006, 11:27 AM
shit you got no power on take off if overdrive is off that long
Overdrive is nothing but fourth gear, that is it. It is called overdrive because of the obscenely low gear ratio, something like .62 or thereabouts. It has absolutely nothing to do with acceleration, it is about lowering engine revs at cruising speeds. Think before you talk. :P

I use my automatic to downshift, use the engine to slow the car, I also drop out of OD to pass and accelerate, but it is still an automatic. It's response time is not what a competent driver with a manual can do. While it is still possible to control the engine to an extent with an automatic, you will never gain the control that a manual will grant you. Anyone that properly knows how to drive a manual will tell you this. I can sit on a 20* incline and never touch my brakes, as a matter of fact, in a manual car, brakes are never even an issue except for stopping.

If you are drag racing, I am sorry guys, hate all you want, but I know I am right from experience and a million others who know like I do, an automatic is your best option as it is more reliable, you will not miss shifts, it will shift almost precisely at the same time, everytime, thus making you more consistant, and in drag racing, consistancy is what wins.

My Big Block Mopar is an auto, as is the M body I just bought for the purpose of dragging. I won't drag in anything but an automatic, even though I prefer a manual. The Mistress (my Mustang) recieved an Auto to Manual swap and Chaos will as well when I get around to doing the Blacktop Swap.

There is no replacement for a manual as far as control goes.

3sgte@daspeedof
01-14-2006, 04:11 PM
amen to that, preach on brotha man from the 5th floor!

PhillyDRFT
01-14-2006, 05:21 PM
a clutch and 6 gears?


i would believe shifting an auto like that would cause tranny and engine temps to rise depending on how you shift.

We could only wish the 5th gen came accessable in a 6speed :(

angryyoungnpoor
01-14-2006, 05:45 PM
We could only wish the 5th gen came accessable in a 6speed :(

agreed. I don't like being at 3000 rpm at 65 mph. It's BS!

Punisher
01-14-2006, 06:37 PM
Just picked up a 5th gen last night.. it's for my gf... it's an automatic and I was blown away by how low the RPMs are on the highway compared to my 5spd..

But then again I was blown away by the fact that my 5spd would blow the automatic away... lol

Slushboxes kill power/performance. I never did believe it when I drove my automatic corolla.. and I slap shifted that thing.. it isn't good for transmission.

Lagos
01-14-2006, 09:18 PM
its really bad for the tranny to shift it like that. while its true that the shift-tronic system in something like a 7th gen auto does the same thing, im sure something esle was designed differently for the tranny to be able to do that.

face it, you bought an automatic. put it in D and off you go. thats how its ment to be used.

Slider
01-15-2006, 02:53 AM
I don't see how it can be bad for the auto tranny. Anyone care to explain?

Lagos
01-15-2006, 03:39 AM
check your owners manual . it will tell you to make sure the car is stoped and to do all your gear selections with your foot on the brake and not with the car in motion

AznKlique
01-16-2006, 07:51 AM
no no, i thought you can use the lower gears for engine braking...its like turning off overdrive while driving, the gears change. I cant see anything wrong with shifting while in motion.

Lagos
01-16-2006, 08:06 AM
no no, i thought you can use the lower gears for engine braking...its like turning off overdrive while driving, the gears change. I cant see anything wrong with shifting while in motion.

im sure youll be ok if you do it a few times, but auto trannys are really not ment to be used like that. i think those lower gears are really ment for towing

if you want to shift your car, then just convert to a maual . everyone will just make fun of you for trying to shift an auto :slap:

Slider
01-16-2006, 08:08 AM
There's a good chance it says it in the manual to not get sued by idiots. If it said that you can shift while driving, some idiot sooner or later would drop it into 1st at 80mph or over worse reverse and blame Toyota. Upshifting shouldn't hurt it.

Murgatroy
01-16-2006, 08:11 AM
I have been shifting Chaos likea manual for over 3 years now. For more than 50k miles. She has taken it like a trooper. It is still not as good as a manual, but it will make due till I swap. It won't hurt the car. Regardless of what anyone says.

Edit- It won't hurt the car if you know what you are doing. Throwing it in first at 70 MPH is gonna tear you to pieces. Passing gear (when you floor it and suddenly you can go faster and your tach jumps to a much higher RPM) is nothing more than the engine shifting out of OD and dropping a gear, if you floor it at lower speeds it will even drop as far as second or first. If it were bad for the tranny to shift like this, Toyota would not have impemented a valve system that will drop gears AUTOMATICALLY like that.

Galcobar
01-16-2006, 09:23 AM
So basically, don't be any stupider with manually shifting an auto transmission than you would be shifting a standard, and you'll be okay.

Murgatroy
01-16-2006, 10:24 AM
So basically, don't be any stupider with manually shifting an auto transmission than you would be shifting a standard, and you'll be okay.
Bingo! That is it in a nutshell.

AznKlique
01-16-2006, 08:29 PM
im sure youll be ok if you do it a few times, but auto trannys are really not ment to be used like that. i think those lower gears are really ment for towing

if you want to shift your car, then just convert to a maual . everyone will just make fun of you for trying to shift an auto :slap:

i totally agree with that. Autos arent meant for shifting. Put that crap in D and go.

tomyc48
01-17-2006, 07:59 AM
ok here's teh bottom line on this guys.... :wtf:
the trans is NOT MEANT TO BE ABUSED LIKE THAT!!!! THE ONLY REASON YOU HAVE THE OPTION OF USING TEH LOWER GEARS IS FOR BASICLY HOLDIGN YOU BACK ON A HILL SO YOU DON'T GET THE BRAKES TO HOT ADN NOT BE ABLE TO STOP. IT'S NOT A TIPTRONINC TRAN ADN IT'S NTO MEAN TO BE USED THAT WAY. PUT IT IN DRIVE ADN LET THE COMPUTER DO IT'S JOB. seriously it totaly different gearing from a standard 5 speed and unless you get adn after market torque converter your car wont proform any better by tryign to shift it manualy all you will do is cause unnessary ware on the trans.
teh over drive option is (like someone said before) meant for cruisign on the highway. it can be turned off to avoid accessive shifting in adn out of 4th gear on hilly roads and such. SORRY IF I CAME OFF LIKE AN ASS HERE BUT IT'S ALL PRETTY BASIC STUFF THAT most people that read their owners manual should know. so if you feel the need to shift manually get a stick shift.
i think you were difinately smart for asking firt b4 you went adn beat up your trans. and as far as teh car not having a good lauch if you leave the OD off, that's just rediculous, OD has nothign to do w/ the way the car comes off the line, it only has to do w/ highway or steady cruising speeds above a certain speed. A FOURTH GEAR. nothign more nothing less. and does not affect the lower gears (1st, 2nd).

Tommy91GT
01-17-2006, 08:23 AM
SHifting an Automatic, while not recommended, does little if any damage to the transmission. On average the Auto shifts around 3-3.5k unless you are wot. If you choice to manually shift at wot and you shift too early the engine will still maintain its gear till the computer hits its shift point. By shifting yourself you can choice your RPM to shift at. It allows you to to hold the engine and rev up to 5200 before shifting. This will not harm your engine.
What is completely not recommend is revving in nuetral and dropping into gear while holding that rev (nuetral drops). This will do a lot of damage to an auto tranny.

BeeHay
01-17-2006, 09:38 AM
i leave my OD off while i deliver pizzas through the neighboorhood and city...
i don't think the tranny has to go into 4th at 30mph.

oh i was wondering also, does 3rd and 4th have its own seperate high and low?
it sometimes feels like the trans is dropping a gear, but i know it hasn't.

say it's in 4th and i depress the pedal to accel, the trans feels like it's going into 3rd, but if i click OD off it actually drops then into 3rd.

Murgatroy
01-17-2006, 11:39 AM
That is called the powerband BeeHay. When the engine gets to it's powerband it feels like a sudden boost. The 4AFE doesn't make a whole lot of power under 3k, but if you are not at 75% throttle it won't kick to 'passing gear.'

As for everyone saying it is damaging, I am telling you from EXTENSIVE years of doing this and RACING autos, as long as you are sane with it, it is not gonna hurt your car. Period, end of story. From the factory it will rev till almost redline before it shifts at WOT, if you go to WOT it is gonna drop gears to the safest gear it can to help you accelerate, that is what an AUTOMATIC transmission does. It is were unsafe the factory would not have designed the valve system the way it did. Shifting it yourself is basically picking a better (if you know what you are doing) point for the engine to shift at to stay within it's powerband. While this is STILL NOT AS EFFECTIVE as a manual, it works. If you are so worried about it harming your transmission, go have a custom stall converter made for $500+, install a bigger tranny cooler and run a mixture of Trick Shift (recomended regardless in an Auto,) then you will be so safe that Geico would like your tranny.

If you get stupid with it, you will fuck your tranny up, but as long as you are sane, it is not dangerous. I speak from experience, I have done this in every auto car I have ever owned, and I have never blown a tranny from this. I have done this with Chaos since the day I bought her, and that was 50,000 miles or more ago. She still drives like a champ.

Argue all you want, but until you show me facts or counter experience to prove otherwise (not "some guy I know",) I will not back down from my point of view.

tomyc48
01-17-2006, 05:18 PM
i'm not saying it's damaging i'm just sayign that not how it was meant to be used. teh computer i there for a reason and no offence to you guys that think yuo know better then teh people that designed the trans, years of extensive reasearch went inot builing teh trans adn the computer that operates it. you sould just leave it in drive and let the computer do it's job. it knows better then you do. if you want a car that was meant to be shifted manualy buying a manualy shiting car shuold have bean your first choise that auto trans in thses cars are NOT TIPTRONIC TRANSMISSIONS and again are nolt mean tto be driven that way. there are bands in there that can and will break prematurely if teh trans is abused. i mean what it all really comes down to here guys is they are your cars drive um how you want to drive um, but be prepared to deal w/ teh consiqueses of your actions.

Murgatroy
01-17-2006, 07:17 PM
I drive an ST, it is not a computer controlled transmission.

Punisher
01-18-2006, 09:05 PM
Hahaha.. this is so stupid.. Go ahead.. shift your automatics around.. it makes them no faster.. doesn't do a fuckin thing, you'll still get raped by a manual.. slushboxes are.. well slushboxes!

86Sleeper
01-18-2006, 11:01 PM
i'm not saying it's damaging i'm just sayign that not how it was meant to be used. teh computer i there for a reason and no offence to you guys that think yuo know better then teh people that designed the trans, years of extensive reasearch went inot builing teh trans adn the computer that operates it. you sould just leave it in drive and let the computer do it's job. it knows better then you do. if you want a car that was meant to be shifted manualy buying a manualy shiting car shuold have bean your first choise that auto trans in thses cars are NOT TIPTRONIC TRANSMISSIONS and again are nolt mean tto be driven that way. there are bands in there that can and will break prematurely if teh trans is abused. i mean what it all really comes down to here guys is they are your cars drive um how you want to drive um, but be prepared to deal w/ teh consiqueses of your actions.
First off, tomyc48, before trying to flame somebody, learn how to spell. Makes you look like less of an idiot. On another note, you don't actually shift with an automatic transmission. What you're doing when you put it in gear is telling the transmission the highest gear it's allowed to go into. If you put it in 3rd, it won't start in 3rd, it will start in 1st and shift normally up until 3rd gear. That was my $.02.:whore:

tomyc48
01-19-2006, 07:03 AM
no sh!t, i know how a trans works i've rebuilt enough of them to know adn understand them. teh bottoem line here is that you can't control the trans any better then it controls itself. if you didn't want an auto you shuoldn't have bought one. think what yuo want about it. teh bottom line is that it wabn't meant to be used that way. adn it does cause unessary wear, weather yo want to belive it or not. do what you want to w/ your car i don't really care. oh and by the way i don;t care waht you think of my typing.

Murgatroy
01-19-2006, 07:16 AM
On another note, you don't actually shift with an automatic transmission. What you're doing when you put it in gear is telling the transmission the highest gear it's allowed to go into. If you put it in 3rd, it won't start in 3rd, it will start in 1st and shift normally up until 3rd gear. That was my $.02.:whore:
You do shift with an automatic. If you put it in first, instead of the Big D, you are in first, when you reach the RPM you are intersted in, you then shift it to second, you wait a few seconds (shorter if you are heavy in the throttle and the line pressure is higher) and you then shift to second. With a Celica you shift out of fourth by turning OD off, if you pull the shifter to second with OD on, you are gonna drop two gears at once, which is not that healthy as there is a good chance you will rev to high (unless you are at low speeds.)

The only reasons a person really needs to manually shift an automatic is to downshift for engine braking, or upshifting if the tranny is not going all the way to the peak of the powerband. When it is raining out, I will always downshift to engine break, same for snow and ice. Brakes are not your friend if they lock up.

Now when you start talking about domestic auto trannies for racing purposes, you can even swap out to a full manual valve body. I had one in my TH350 in my `75 Camaro. If you put it in D (3rd gear,) you were in third gear. It was operated by a B&M Ratchet Shifter (Slapstick.) With some trick shift, a good stall converter, a full out shift kit for the highest line pressure and two auxillary oil coolers, I garundamntee you it could shift better than anyone in a manual.

All that being said, anything outside of drag racing and towing, I prefer a manual transmission. Again, as I have said this entire thread, an automatic is NOT as good as a manual outside of certain situations. But you can shift one manually to make due. It just isn't as efficient.

creech_r
01-19-2006, 09:09 PM
my family went through 3 auto tranny's in an '89 Taurus (not SHO) just putting it in drive and going. We also blew the head gasket twice. We drive and drive. One of Mom's minivan's heads cracked recently, that sucked. Totally didn't see that coming.

and "shifting" is just limiting gears, so i have done it, i have also played with other styles of using an auto tranny. My dad's explorer isn't all that quick. BUT when you push the pedal all the way down, it's not that quick. IF you punch it down (as fast as the pedal will move...) it will break the rear loose for a good 50 ft and fly. I found that odd. I'm wondering is there a vaccum thing that goes based on time to WOT?

Punisher
01-19-2006, 10:44 PM
Um.. typically if you drop to many gears.. the tranny won't shift.

If you are doing 75 and drop it into 2nd.. it won't happen.. it'll just stay in whatever gear it was in.

If you accidently throw it into reverse, it goes into reverse.. the engine load becomes to high to fast and the engine stalls.

Carnage
01-20-2006, 02:58 AM
I don't know how the Celica auto tranny shifts. If it is computer controled then you can always hypertech it and set your shift point to redline on all 4 gears. I don't think it is as ECUs were primitive in 92 (hell they didn't even have windows 95) so I dunno. If you can, str8 If not then your fucked.

Unless you swap your tranny. If its not computer controled your lucky cause you won't have to swap out your ECU or get it remapped for a 5-speed (it will try to computerifficly shift something thats not there and i dunno but it dosent sound good).

MooseKnuckle
01-20-2006, 10:27 AM
What you're doing when you put it in gear is telling the transmission the highest gear it's allowed to go into. If you put it in 3rd, it won't start in 3rd, it will start in 1st and shift normally up until 3rd gear. That was my $.02.:whore:
That is correct. This is for towing purposes. Anyone that owns a truck and hauls large loads will tell you this. ANYTHING else is not what the tranny was "originally designed" to do.

oh i was wondering also, does 3rd and 4th have its own seperate high and low?it sometimes feels like the trans is dropping a gear, but i know it hasn't.say it's in 4th and i depress the pedal to accel, the trans feels like it's going into 3rd, but if i click OD off it actually drops then into 3rd.
That is exactly what it is doing- it's called a kickdown. It does this to compensate for your lack of acceleration abillityin 4th gear. It is mainly intended for uphill driving so that you don't have to manually shift to 3rd.

Summary- It will eventually wear out the tranny sooner than you would if you used it normally, but it's not like it will fall out from under the car. Biggest point to make here is, don't drive around with your OD on all the time, only use it when cruising at speeds of 50-55+. If you leave it on all the time you WILL damage the tranny. I have gone through several with my wife before she understood this.

TheNefariousOne
01-23-2006, 06:54 AM
I disagree that it will damage the tranny. Almosy every car I have driven as well as almost everyone I know leaves the car in OD with no tranny issues. I'm sure it does put less stress by blocking out OD but I don't think it's the deciding factor in how long the tranny will last.

cheech_r: Taurus are notorious for their transmissions failing, as well as the headgaskets on the 3.8 engine. Not really the best example haha. :D

TNO

Galcobar
01-23-2006, 07:09 AM
OD doesn't kick in until you reach cruising speeds, so you are effectively not driving with it on at low speeds.

Tommy91GT
01-23-2006, 08:18 AM
OD kicks in at 25 MPH

TheNefariousOne
01-23-2006, 07:38 PM
True dat. Depending how much throttle you're giving it, OD will kick in reallly low.

TNO

needhelpnow67
01-25-2006, 01:31 AM
My OD kicks on at 25 or 30. One week I drove with it off and I would be doing so today if not for one thing. Gas. I got 15 mpg with OD off and about 20 with OD on. Gas is so expensive these days..

changmeister88
01-27-2006, 04:12 AM
I know car mechanic knowledge, got it from my father, that will mess the gear box up like crazy, when i do that in my fathers auto he kills me hehe

tomyc48
01-27-2006, 05:09 AM
I know car mechanic knowledge, got it from my father, that will mess the gear box up like crazy, when i do that in my fathers auto he kills me hehe
we're waisting our time trying to explain this it seesm like no one listens