PDA

View Full Version : st-gt4 swap questions



TwistedImage92
12-29-2004, 01:49 AM
i know that every question that i am about to ask was probably already answered. i read all of the info on the swap but it was not exactly what i needed to know.
current car. 92 celica stx
new clip. 93 JDM celica gt-4 clip.

1. What whires are needed? do i need the dash wireing harness as well? when i pulled the motor out of the swap, i kept the motor harness all together (obviously). when i re install the RHD harness in my LHD car, am i going to need to extend anything or everything? my stx ecu only has 2 plugs and the 3sgte has 3. what is the extra plug for? i am guessing that it goes to the gauge cluster since it did not have a boost vefore.

2. will the car work if i only have the motor ecu pluged into the ecu. i dont care if i cant see how fast i am going for now. eventually i want to eliminate the gauge cluster and just have boost controler, and a few other guages in the dash.

3. i was told that i could take the engine and tranny out of the clip and make a plate for the rear drive shaft and cover it. this way i can just use the all trac tranny and have it fwd.

PLEASE HELP ME!!!
my aim is twistedimage92
my email is twistedimage92@aol.com
my cell is 321-749-7378
my page is tiecc.net

Lagos
12-29-2004, 03:33 AM
oh my.... you really need to do a lot of research before you start any work on your swap.

if you use the awd tranny, you will only get 50% of the engines power to the front wheels, making your swap pointless. you need to find a tranny from an MR2 turbo or a celica GT in order for your swap to work.

type in "3sgte swap" into google and start reading.

Trance4c
12-29-2004, 04:07 AM
man.. your really in bad shape.. when you called me today I didn't understand where your coming from or where your at with this project. But sounds like to me like you haven't put much research or thought into it.. just went at it.

I would never recommend to anyone to use the AWD transmission in a FWD setup. You need to think things through before you go at this man. Get yourself a 3" binder and just start printing / noting everything you come across. I did that for 3 years before I even bought a single piece.

Good luck.

TwistedImage92
12-29-2004, 10:34 AM
well which tranny has the best gearing? can i put a 6 spd gt-s in it?

galcrazi
12-29-2004, 12:40 PM
omg bro... seriously... RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH... if you start now youll mess something up and be doing this for a year.

YangS
12-29-2004, 01:11 PM
Hey;
Well I am still doing my swap too, and I am also stuck with mine because of no battery connectors (still trying to convert the 5sfe wiring).

From what I have experience the motor is a perfect fit same with your stock transmission. But I dont know about a STX you might have to look it up on the model.

You might want to keep every single wire you see untill the end of project you will know which one you dont and do need. I suggest using an mr2 turbo trans, and mr2 turbo axle. Also use the ECU from the 3sgte, NEVER use your stock ecu on a different motor; unless its the same motor with the ecu.

Good luck with the swap; Lucky for you I didnt have a clip. Took me 3 days to do my swap untill I notice no harness for the battery. If your clip came with everything, this shouldn't be hard unless different motor mounts. Otherwise good luck converting your harness from your old motor.

TwistedImage92
12-29-2004, 01:21 PM
well... i have been researching all nite... on TCO... someone said cap off the rear of the trans.. http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1906

Lagos
12-29-2004, 01:36 PM
think about it .... its an awd tranny. that means that its designed to put the power to the front and rear of the car. if you swap it in, you will get 50% of that power to your front wheels only, making your car about as fast as it is now. you need to go out and buy an fwd tranny from an mr2 turbo, or a celica GT. you stock ST tranny will not work.

here... start with the 1st link and keep reading.....
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=3sgte+celica+swap

snyder
12-29-2004, 02:52 PM
Hello. I was like you too. I didn't do the research also. The difference is you got a front clip, so you have all the sensers and everything else. I bought everything seprate. It took me four months to do this swap by myself. I went to my friend at Toyota and he gave me all the books I needed to complete this swap. I knew the engine would fit and I knew the (GT) trans would fit. That means that the four motor mounts would line up, the drive shafts would also line up. I had to use the turbo flywheel and pressure plate, and a racing clutch disc for the GTS trans. Mechanically everything lines up. The wiring is a different story. Post some pics of your car and I will try to help. My setup is:

1. 88 GTS hatchback
2. 93 JDM 3SGTE
3. 88 GT trans
4. 88 GTS Clutch disc
5. 93 JDM MR2 (SARD) ECU

Snafu
12-29-2004, 03:43 PM
The 6-speed you're talking about is supposed to be mated with a 2zzge, not an s series engine.

The things that will be different about your swap, seeing as how you have an A series engine goes as follows:

You'll need to make a custom bracket for your passanger's side motor mount. The chassis is designed to accept it, however it's just not there. Not too bad.

Also, you'll need an S series transmission. You have a 4AFE, where as the gt guy shave a 5SFE. The alltrac engine is a 3SGTE, so both the gt and alltrac have s series engine in them. You'll need to get one either from a GT, a Solara, or an MR2 (the 93 turbo tranny w/ lsd is the best in this case. there's one being sold in buying/selling)

You need to do A LOT more research. Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but it's absolutly true.

-Colin

PS. The thing you're talking about blocking the tranny off.... The AWD transfercase does have a "FWD" mode I've heard about on alltrac.net, however it's not known the difference in power you put down, or how much abuse it can/supposed to take.

TwistedImage92
12-30-2004, 01:30 PM
Yea the fwd mode was for temp use... and I cannot find the lever or w/e. i think that was the older 3sgte, my motor is out of a 93 Celica. I donít know if it has one.

Well... I have thought about what you guys are saying and it does not make too much since to me with the 50%... when I get then engine and tranny in the car I will dyno it and see what the tranny can do... then I will post the results and compare them to what you guys do... transmissions and horsepower work on resistance and if there is no resistance on the rear, it will be sent limited power... I talked to a mechanic and he said that it was worth a try to do it like this because he thought the same way... I hope I am right so you guys cant say "I told you so."

TwistedImage92
12-30-2004, 01:31 PM
o yea... is there anyone, anywhere that has put a 6 spd on a 3s?

Lagos
12-30-2004, 02:19 PM
i really doubt youll tell us "i told you so" ... i know you are new here and new to the swap, but most of use already did a swap and went through what you are going through. we learned a lot from it, and you can benefit from that by taking our advice.

even if there was any way to lock off the rear of the tranny, it would still make the car slower because the awd tranny has about 1-200lb more weight.

galcrazi
12-30-2004, 03:02 PM
o yea... is there anyone, anywhere that has put a 6 spd on a 3s?

y would u even want that? where/how will u be driving that u will be able to utilize a sixth gear? its basicly uselss unless u ahve miles of unrestricted roadway

ChrisD
12-30-2004, 04:31 PM
Holy crap. Ask for help without doing research, then tell us we are wrong and you know best. Okaaaay.

I'll be nice and just answer your questions.


1. What whires are needed? do i need the dash wireing harness as well? when i pulled the motor out of the swap, i kept the motor harness all together (obviously).

You won't really need the dash wiring, although it *can* be useful if you want to do some more extensive wiring. There are several harnesses in the dash though.


when i re install the RHD harness in my LHD car, am i going to need to extend anything or everything?

When you reinstall the RHD harness, you will need to extend every wire so that it reaches around the intake manifold into the stock harness hole. I extended my wires 32". Or you can drill a hole in the firewall. There is one other way to do it, but it is more complicated and requires even more soldering.


my stx ecu only has 2 plugs and the 3sgte has 3. what is the extra plug for? i am guessing that it goes to the gauge cluster since it did not have a boost vefore.

The extra plug is not for the gauges. If you would have looked in the archives you would have found an ECU pinout diagram which shows what wires are on the plugs. Most of these come from the engine bay, through different harnesses. If you wish to have this working, you will have to wire in this plug from scratch. Or follow those wires through the clip, and add them to your car. Some people wire this up, some don't.

From the archives: http://www.celicatech.com/imagearchive/clayton/3SECUpinouts.jpg

The above pinouts may vary year to year, so don't take those pinouts as the exact wiring for your car. Double check.


2. will the car work if i only have the motor ecu pluged into the ecu. i dont care if i cant see how fast i am going for now. eventually i want to eliminate the gauge cluster and just have boost controler, and a few other guages in the dash.

Not for the gauges. Some people report that it will work without. Wire them in though, it is really only a little extra work. Don't look for shortcuts. Just do it right. It's your dash, you can do what you want to it.


3. i was told that i could take the engine and tranny out of the clip and make a plate for the rear drive shaft and cover it. this way i can just use the all trac tranny and have it fwd.

No. We have dyno proof and individual testimonials that were posted on the old board that confirm that this is NOT the route to go. ON A FWD CAR, USE A FWD TRANSMISSION. Simple as that. You are just going to lose power from doing this, which defeats the purpose of doing the swap.

Mike431635
12-30-2004, 06:12 PM
What Chris said. There was a guy with a black 1990 GTS who did the 3S swap with a 93 ST185 clip (same as the one you have). He used the AWD transmission, blocked off the rear, and dyno'd at around 100 fwhp. He swapped in an MR2 turbo transmission and dynoed around 200fwhp. If I could find the dyno sheet, I would. However, the old board went kaboom :(

You can do the extra work, but it won't pay off. You'll end up pulling the tranny and junking it. You're better off just getting the right transmission in the first place and keeping the AWD tranny intact so you can sell it and recoup some of the swap costs.

Snafu
12-30-2004, 07:29 PM
And in all honesty, Why would you want to go to all the trouble with blocking off the AWD tranny and what not?

The AWD tranny can be sold for a good chunk of change as well, and an S series tranny can easily be pulled at a junkyard for ~100 bucks max.

TwistedImage92
12-31-2004, 01:41 AM
update on my progress... IT RUNS!!! i have to get the wheels back on and i am missing 2 break spring... does n e one have one or the other or both?? i need the antisqueel spring that holds the breaks off of the rotor and the other one is the one that holds the pads in... guess i will go to the junk yard and get them on monday... thanks for all the help everyone



Quote:
Originally Posted by galcrazi
y would u even want that? where/how will u be driving that u will be able to utilize a sixth gear? its basicly uselss unless u ahve miles of unrestricted roadway


well the GTS has 6 speed, and so does a type s rsx... they use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snafu
And in all honesty, Why would you want to go to all the trouble with blocking off the AWD tranny and what not?


it was easy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisd
Holy crap. Ask for help without doing research, then tell us we are wrong and you know best. Okaaaay.


i didnt mean for you to mis interperate what i said... i ment that i am going to try it how i have it and dyno it. i said i hope that i am right so you guys cant tell me "i told you so."

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisd
When you reinstall the RHD harness, you will need to extend every wire so that it reaches around the intake manifold into the stock harness hole.


i just made a new hole towards the drivers side... then i made a cover for the other side... this way i only had to extend 5 wires

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisd
The extra plug is not for the gauges


ok i didnt plug that in and it is running!!!

(my bad, I hit edit when I ment to hit quote but saved your post - clayton)

CelicaGT4
12-31-2004, 04:30 AM
If you have any problems with your setup feel free to get a hold of me. I'm in Kissimee, FL on vacation and I am bored as fuck! (208)731-0235. I'll be here till the 4th.

Trance4c
12-31-2004, 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by galcrazi
y would u even want that? where/how will u be driving that u will be able to utilize a sixth gear? its basicly uselss unless u ahve miles of unrestricted roadway


well the GTS has 6 speed, and so does a type s rsx... they use them.

come on man.. the RSX isn't even a toyota! why do you think? ya know.

TwistedImage92
12-31-2004, 04:57 AM
the gts is 6spd toyota... and so is a supra... i thought rsx because a fiend of mine has one and he uses his 6th gear... not that i was going to hook a rsx tranny in there

ChrisD
12-31-2004, 06:55 AM
It's not going to be a bolt on affair to get a 7th gen tranny to hook up. Huge waste of time IMHO. 5 is enough. Really, you don't need 6 with this engine.

Playfortoday
12-31-2004, 08:24 AM
I am to horrified to comment on this other than to let you know that I am horrified! 10 guys talking from experience and that isn't enough?!? I am no master mechanic, but I can get just about anything to run too. Now, getting it to run right (tuned), is another story completely. So you just went from like 80whp to 100whp if you are lucky. I saw the tranny dynos too. I really hope you plan on getting the correct tranny in there, preferrably a 93 or better MR2 trubo (e153 is it?) Just ask Clayton and others, 5s work well, but don't tend to hold power reliably.

galcrazi
12-31-2004, 01:01 PM
Do what you want man... but some how "i told you so" just wont sound too good to you. Research is the MOST IMPORTANT tool you need to perform the swap. Your coming up short man.

TwistedImage92
12-31-2004, 02:20 PM
thanks for all of the help guys...

TI-KOOBOSJEWELL
01-04-2005, 04:07 AM
I Read How Hard And How Long It Would Take To Do The Swap. That Was One Of The Easiest Swaps Ive Done. 25hrs.

Snafu
01-04-2005, 04:41 AM
Wow. 25 hours, that's impressive. Did you do it to your STX? What's you do with the passanger side mount? How was the wiring, and what did you do with your fuse boxes? Did you keep your ac? What gen engine did you use? Did you swap the gauge clusters? What tranny did you use?

ChrisD
01-04-2005, 03:39 PM
And thats just a few of the variables. Some swaps are easier than others, thats for sure. It all depends. No two swaps are identical.

TwistedImage92
01-04-2005, 04:16 PM
it is not that no 2 swaps are identical... no 2 swaps have the same people doing them :)

TwistedImage92
01-04-2005, 04:21 PM
Wow. 25 hours, that's impressive. Did you do it to your STX? What's you do with the passanger side mount? How was the wiring, and what did you do with your fuse boxes? Did you keep your ac? What gen engine did you use? Did you swap the gauge clusters? What tranny did you use?

yea stx

had to remove both of the mounts from the stock car and from the clip and replace them

whiring was easy... only cut 5 or 6 whires...

fuse boxes are the ones from the clip

still have AC... had to modify the thermastat(spell check) housing

used a 93 JDM all trac

stock guage cluster... i had white guages and i liked them better, i am going to get a boost guage and another guage on the piller

i have the alltrac tranny in it now... i lost a clip for my breaks during the swap and i need to go get 1 b 4 i know if i need to change to the mr2 tranny

Snafu
01-05-2005, 12:13 AM
That's interesting. So you didn't bolt in the passanger side mount? How did you splice in the wiring for the JDM electical speedo, and not mechanical?

TI-KOOBOSJEWELL
01-05-2005, 01:01 AM
Y Bolt On When U Can Mig

Snafu
01-05-2005, 02:03 AM
That's very true. I take it you just used the bracket from the 3S and mig'd it on the chassis, smart thinking. How'd you do on getting your stock mechanical speedo to work with the JDM electric speedo wiring?

TwistedImage92
01-05-2005, 03:24 PM
hooked up the machanical speedo

Audi90Quattro
01-07-2005, 03:11 AM
So how exactly does changing or modifying your thermostat get your ac to work? More than likely you'd need to run a switch to manually control the compressor. :laugh:

galcrazi
01-07-2005, 12:50 PM
So how exactly does changing or modifying your thermostat get your ac to work? More than likely you'd need to run a switch to manually control the compressor. :laugh:

lol :hehe: nice... hope your car runs longer than a month on this type of workmanship

snafu... i see u waiting there with the B.S. flag folded neatly in hand behind your back ready to be raised :D

Snafu
01-08-2005, 02:49 AM
snafu... i see u waiting there with the B.S. flag folded neatly in hand behind your back ready to be raised :D

How'd you know!?!

TwistedImage92
01-10-2005, 04:26 AM
So how exactly does changing or modifying your thermostat get your ac to work? More than likely you'd need to run a switch to manually control the compressor. :laugh:

i dont remember which hoses went on there... but 2 out of the 4 are on there and one of them was reversed...

xeril
01-10-2005, 08:15 AM
Just ask Clayton and others, 5s work well, but don't tend to hold power reliably.

i am a bit curious about this statement.. i've heard the s53/54(?) trannys hold out fine. a guy in this area was putting down 320whp with one and had no complaints about his transmission. also, from what i read up.. i heard that they were preferred by some because of the shorter gearing for 3/4/5th gears.. my tranny was grinding a little bit before the swap, but the extra power hasn't appeared to affect it one bit..

90CelicaST
02-03-2005, 01:23 AM
Does anyone have a write-up on the ST-3sgte swap? I've looked EVERYWHERE and I cannot find one. So, can someone PLEASE tell me one, or write one PLEASE. Thanks, later.

Snafu
02-03-2005, 01:33 AM
There's no writeup for anything. You need to search the forums and such for information. The swaps are basicaly the same, except the mounts are different. You simply just use the S-series mounts. They all bolt in except for the passanger side one, which needs to be bolted/welded into place. There's a designated mark on the chassis for this brace.

Then of course you need an S-series trans, but that's no big deal

90CelicaST
02-03-2005, 01:52 AM
Alright thanks. And in a year and a half, if I get to do the swap. I'll write it just incase people need it. But that's if I have the money, and my dad signs the title over to me(I'm 16 now and my dad controls what I do with my car.) But thanks anyways. Late.