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90CelicaST
12-31-2005, 09:30 PM
What is the deal with these? The Ecotec Cobalts are pretty much kicking everyone's ass. I saw a time attack thing on SPEED where this SCd Cobalt ran the fastest time, beating Skylines, WRXs, and everything else. What makes these car so, dare I say, good? I know that Chevy themselves did not make the ECOTEC engines, one of there possesions did(by this I mean another company under GM). Cars such as the Vauxhall and Opel. These companies all had ECOTEC in the early to mid-ninties. What makes these engines "ECOTEC" or is it just some name that makes it sound good, with no variable timing(except for the 2006 2.3L Ecotecs; they will have VVT)...AHH...I have had many debates with people over this. What is everyone's input?

Lagos
12-31-2005, 10:00 PM
are you talking about the new coblat that out? in stock trim, those are not really that fast.

the stuff you see on speed are cars raced by professional teams with TONS of money put into them. so its not really that a coblat beat a skyline or a supra. it just means that the cobalt team probably had way more money to dump into their project then the other ones did

Mister2T
12-31-2005, 10:03 PM
I have to agree with lagos

hobbie2k
12-31-2005, 11:18 PM
what sort of time attack? If you're talking autocross then I wouldn't be surprised because the big, heavy Skylines and understeer prone WRXs aren't the greatest autocross cars to begin with, their strengths lie elsewhere.

Also, I know that GM itself is trying to use the Cobalt to break into the Japan-dominated youth performance crowd, so they are willing to put a lot of factory-backed money and expertise into beating the imports, at least on tv. I have seen a few "tuning comparisons" where the cobalt team was a GM factory crew and the others were tuning garages.

On the other hand, the Cobalt (while it still isn't on a par with the major imports in most aspects) is a HUGE leap forward from the pathetic (but oddly successful) Cavalier, and is even quite a bit better than it's close cousin, the Saturn Ion. And the ECOTEC is probably the best motor to come out of GM since the Chevy small-block.

There is, honestly, a lot of potential in the car. Now all GM has to learn to do is turn "potential" into "production".

Gurr
01-01-2006, 07:48 PM
I agree that the ecotec is one of the greatest motors put out by GM. My friend has a Saturn Ion Redline, and runs 14.9's consistently stock. So I can't really say anything bad.

Now, for that show you seen on speed. The only reason the cobalt had the best lap times where they had more runs and that the other cars broke down. You'd have known that if you paid attention.(no offense)

Punisher
01-01-2006, 08:33 PM
:laugh:cavalier:laugh:

Morwan
01-02-2006, 01:53 AM
The Ecotec engine was designed to be tuned, unlike any of Toyota's or Honda's engines. IMHO, the reason Toyota's engines turned out to be so 'tunable' was because they were deisgned to be reliable: they could withstand absurd amounts of punishment.

What really bothers me is that the Ecotec engine beats out the 2AZ-FE at the efficiency game: the supercharged 2.0 L Ecotec puts out more power than the supercharged 2.4 L 2AZ-FE.

Skylines, WRX's, I'd say those two are flukes or artifacts of the way the competition was setup, but I'd believe that it outran any other I4-based car.

SpiderGTS
01-02-2006, 06:26 PM
You know what guys, i raced a cobalt SS with my stock GTS on the autobahn and we ran side by side the whole way, to me thats sad when you have a 2.4 superchargered engine with more power run the same times as a 1.8 N/A engine do you guys not agree? Besides we got off the autobahn and i was able to out handle the SS with no problem. i am not trying to be cocky but just saying that there is more time and effort into celica's and other purpose designed cars then just sticking a supercharger on a car and mass producing the vehicle to make money off kids that dont know a whole lot about other factors that are involved in making a fast car. Those are my to cents. and P.S. whats up from Afgahnastan

TheNefariousOne
01-02-2006, 08:35 PM
The Celica was as much a "mass produced car" as the Cobalt is. And there's as many Celica owners out there that don't know much about other factors involved in making a fast car too.

I personally like the Cobalt SS...it's one of the few cars in the current GM line that's actually exciting and different.

TNO

surfergravity
01-02-2006, 08:41 PM
Hey SpiderGTS.
Chevy Cobalt:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.9 sec(car and driver) 6.2sec(Road and Track)
Zero to 100 mph: 14.4 sec(CD) 14.8(RT)
Zero to 130 mph: 29.8 sec(CD)
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec(CD)
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.4 sec @ 100 mph(CD)
Top speed (drag limited): 145 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g

Celica GTS:
0-60 is hard to get real good data, but it's somewhere between 6.5sec and 7.0sec.
1/4 Mile is well into 15 seconds.

Was the Cobalt being trailered when you were racing it? Or was no one in it at the time?

jaded_driver
01-03-2006, 05:40 AM
:laugh:cavalier:laugh:

lol... now now don't clown i had one that ran 13.4 and under in a quarter...

Ecotec is an amazing engine that GM is playing with... some of the things they have done with it (turbo and supercharged) are amazing. This car has serious potential... and Chevy actually does turn potential into production... and always has with RKSport... they make a nice line of everything you could possibly want for Chevy's Cavalier, and Pontiac's Sunfire... and now with the Red Line and Cobalt... I really wish our American friends would just get the word out... a little advertising about what these cars can do and bam.. it would be a new generation of American Muscle... American Rice!!

TheNefariousOne
01-03-2006, 05:49 AM
You know, I just thought about...would you guys say that domestics have caught up to imports in terms of sport compacts? I'd say so, with the Cobalt and SRT-4 matching up with what Honda, Toyota (Scion actually), Nissan, etc. have to offer currently.

TNO

hobbie2k
01-03-2006, 05:57 AM
I've never heard of RKSport....and I like to think of myself as pretty well informed on the general automotive front. Is it a factory subdivision or just a tuning parts company for GMs?

Also, I wasn't just talking potential performance numbers, I was talking about all the other things that make a great car, the feel, the sensations, the inspiration. I think of the feeling of being behind the wheel of a GT-R or a 3 series, or a '69 Z/28, or even a 300C and ask myself if I get that from a Cobalt or an Ion, and I don't. On top of that, it's equipment levels aren't on par with it's price and is about a generation behind the imports. It could be considered on par with the current Sentra or Corolla (both due for replacement) but is clearly behind when compared to the Mazda3 or the new Civic, even if it's numbers are comparable (or better). Like I said, the Ecotec is the best part of the car, just like how it was the best part of the Cavalier and Sunfire (I had a Sunfire rental car for a while and hated it).

The SRT-4 is fast, but it's a complete pain as a daily driver, noisy, rough, uncomfortable and if you screw up, it will bite you. The Cobalt SS is much better day-to-day, but it's refinement and quality still aren't what you'd expect out of Toyota or Honda.

jaded_driver
01-03-2006, 06:09 AM
www.rksport.com

yea i know.. they don't exactly advertise it... not like Nismo>Nissan or anything.. lol

Lagos
01-03-2006, 06:10 AM
You know, I just thought about...would you guys say that domestics have caught up to imports in terms of sport compacts? I'd say so, with the Cobalt and SRT-4 matching up with what Honda, Toyota (Scion actually), Nissan, etc. have to offer currently.

TNO

no, not yet... but they sure are trying!

you have to remember that even tho something like an srt4 is a faster car, most young people would go out and buy the new civic, just because they still have the namebrand that people think of then they talk about street tuners.

i think all this competition is a great thing. just means that in a few years ill be able to buy a nice sleeper for dirt cheap ...lol.

jaded_driver
01-03-2006, 06:13 AM
You know, I just thought about...would you guys say that domestics have caught up to imports in terms of sport compacts? I'd say so, with the Cobalt and SRT-4 matching up with what Honda, Toyota (Scion actually), Nissan, etc. have to offer currently.

TNO


Completely.. i've drove both the SRT-4 and the Cobalt... i like them both.. yea the SRT is a little bumpy... but i have a nissan sentra Spec-V.. and have had a 01 SI and an 00 2.4 Cavalier... and compared to my Toyota.. lol i'd rather have any of them... lol but my Toyota is old... but out of those.. my Cavalier was the nicest to ride in.. even after the turbo... i've drove mazda's junk too... not a big fan... however i believe if you want to go for daily ride AND scc you'd have to give props to the lancer (not the evo) the lancer OZ is an awesome choice.. wish i had got it instead of my nissan.. but oh well.. n-e-way it was awesome.. preformance sucked butt.. but that can simply be fixed by a few alterations

hobbie2k
01-03-2006, 06:42 PM
But the Lancer OZ is just a stock bargain basement Lancer with OZ wheels and a spoiler...? Even the suspension and brakes are the same... Or has that changed since it first came out?

Morwan
01-03-2006, 06:47 PM
You know, I just thought about...would you guys say that domestics have caught up to imports in terms of sport compacts? I'd say so, with the Cobalt and SRT-4 matching up with what Honda, Toyota (Scion actually), Nissan, etc. have to offer currently.

In terms of engine performance? Hell yes. The Cobalt SS, Neon SRT/22 are the two fastest sport compacts under $20,000. Imports still outperform them when it comes to the skidpad and braking, though.

TheNefariousOne
01-03-2006, 07:06 PM
Eh? Both the SRT-4 and the 2006 Si pulled .85g on the skidpad. The SRT braked 60-0 in 120 ft, the Si in 125 ft. I dunno man... :D

(took those numbers from here (SRT) (http://www.modernracer.com/dodgeneonsrt4.html) and here (Si) (http://www.modernracer.com/hondacivicsi2006.html) )

TNO

jaded_driver
01-04-2006, 02:37 AM
But the Lancer OZ is just a stock bargain basement Lancer with OZ wheels and a spoiler...? Even the suspension and brakes are the same... Or has that changed since it first came out?

lol... no clue.. i just know i drove one and liked it... didn't really look at that... wasn't real serious about buying it after the guy talked to me like i was stupid and didn't know what i was looking for... lol his biggest selling point was it has an iron block...?? lol

SpiderGTS
01-04-2006, 04:32 PM
To TNO, actually there was someone there and if a trailer can be pulled at 140 then thats some hell of a trailer. but enough with the sarcism, when it comes to numbers its a good reference as to what the car can do, but its up the the person driving the car that can make it move as fast and brake as fast. pick what ever car you want and learn everything about it so you as the driver can make it a great experience.

TheNefariousOne
01-05-2006, 05:32 AM
Dude, what are you talking about? Someone there and a trailer?

I'm confused...

TNO

Morwan
01-05-2006, 06:15 AM
Eh? Both the SRT-4 and the 2006 Si pulled .85g on the skidpad. The SRT braked 60-0 in 120 ft, the Si in 125 ft. I dunno man... :D

I was comparing them to the RSX Type-S and the Celica GT-S... But damn, those are pretty good numbers. I just didn't want to come off as an import hater (even though I'm not) by saying their performance is superior in every way. :P

MooseKnuckle
01-05-2006, 10:10 AM
You know, I just thought about...would you guys say that domestics have caught up to imports in terms of sport compacts? I'd say so, with the Cobalt and SRT-4 matching up with what Honda, Toyota (Scion actually), Nissan, etc. have to offer currently.

TNO
Any way you you look at it, American cars are still fugly. So no, because one of the biggest draws to imports, in general, is superior styling.

surfergravity
01-05-2006, 01:12 PM
Dude, what are you talking about? Someone there and a trailer?

I'm confused...

TNO

He was referring to what I wrote in an earlier post. I don't know why he directed his response to you.

Schmleff
01-05-2006, 01:29 PM
Eh? Both the SRT-4 and the 2006 Si pulled .85g on the skidpad. The SRT braked 60-0 in 120 ft, the Si in 125 ft. I dunno man... :D

(took those numbers from here (SRT) (http://www.modernracer.com/dodgeneonsrt4.html) and here (Si) (http://www.modernracer.com/hondacivicsi2006.html) )

TNO

We raced an autox where two modded srt-4's were competing. At the time, johns gts was putting 112 hp to the wheels. Of course it is gutted, but my best time was less than a second slower than either of their fastest.

Morwan
01-05-2006, 05:15 PM
Any way you you look at it, American cars are still fugly. So no, because one of the biggest draws to imports, in general, is superior styling.

Rice much? :P

MooseKnuckle
01-06-2006, 01:43 AM
Rice much? :P
More and more everyday! :bigthumbu