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View Full Version : Is MegaSquirt Crap??



galcrazi
12-22-2004, 02:47 PM
Ive watched a good bit of dyno tuning and runs on vehicles using megasquirt. Im just not impressed. The HP numbers were weak... the tuning was cumbersome and lenghty. It's also a pain bc the kit comes in a box and you build it. not a big fan of using motorcraft parts either :D

I know u used it snafu. What was your setup?
Anyone else have thoughts on the system?

Colossus20v
12-22-2004, 04:00 PM
I know a lot of people use it on their 20valve setups. They are satisfied with it. You guess for the price of it it is worth it. I have not worked with it myself though.

Snafu
12-22-2004, 04:27 PM
Well, building it for sure offsets the cost, which was a plus in my book.

Megasquirt uses the ideal gas law, which incorporates pressure, temperature, the ideal gas constant and a few other perameters. It's very easy to tune and get running yourself, you just plug in your constants, and adjust as you see fit. It's a relativly new product, and most tuners arn't familiar with it. I've seen a lot of probe guys run it, with amazing results (ie 11 sec 2nd gen probe gt).

To me, however, it just doesn't have as many features as I'd like. It's a pain to control ignition timing, and it's fuel maps feel really basic. It feels like it's more ment for those who are not looking for max horsepower, just looking for a reliable engine management that they can tweak, perfect for a custom turbo job. Now I'm not trying to say it's bad, it is very performance oriented, and has a lot of good features, but there's not as many experience tuners out there.

My setup was basically stock. I didn't have it in the car for a long period of time, just enough to get my car to run, and I did run it pig rich to make sure.

For those on a budget, who want a good, solid engine management system, and have about 5 hours to kill, megasquirt is gold. But for those who want just a bit more out of a system, and have a bit more cash, I'd go with Emanage or SMT-6/7.

The megasquirt community is growing very rapidly, and that's also a plus. There are a lot of enthusiasts out there, and it's really easy to get help. The software is developing too, and who knows, the program may get easier to use, and yield better results.

-Colin

Weasy2k
12-23-2004, 08:22 AM
Well, building it for sure offsets the cost, which was a plus in my book.

Megasquirt uses the ideal gas law, which incorporates pressure, temperature, the ideal gas constant and a few other perameters. It's very easy to tune and get running yourself, you just plug in your constants, and adjust as you see fit. It's a relativly new product, and most tuners arn't familiar with it. I've seen a lot of probe guys run it, with amazing results (ie 11 sec 2nd gen probe gt).

To me, however, it just doesn't have as many features as I'd like. It's a pain to control ignition timing, and it's fuel maps feel really basic. It feels like it's more ment for those who are not looking for max horsepower, just looking for a reliable engine management that they can tweak, perfect for a custom turbo job. Now I'm not trying to say it's bad, it is very performance oriented, and has a lot of good features, but there's not as many experience tuners out there.

My setup was basically stock. I didn't have it in the car for a long period of time, just enough to get my car to run, and I did run it pig rich to make sure.

For those on a budget, who want a good, solid engine management system, and have about 5 hours to kill, megasquirt is gold. But for those who want just a bit more out of a system, and have a bit more cash, I'd go with Emanage or SMT-6/7.

The megasquirt community is growing very rapidly, and that's also a plus. There are a lot of enthusiasts out there, and it's really easy to get help. The software is developing too, and who knows, the program may get easier to use, and yield better results.

-Colin

I agree 100%....if you dont know much abou thte whole wiring system and what not then this is not for you. Slowly its getting better due to people putting in there time and helping with the programing (open source :bigthumbu ).

Megasquirt II upgrade should be pritty nice as well. My buddies with VW Rabbits are switching to megasquirt but thats because they have very primative engines :saythat: :hehe:

Fox-N-It
12-23-2004, 09:15 AM
Megasquirt II upgrade should be pritty nice as well. My buddies with VW Rabbits are switching to megasquirt but thats because they have very primative engines :saythat: :hehe:


A primative engine that will waste a 3s swap :saythat:

Alot of guys put out good power on MS and MSnS. MS II will be here shortly and has many of the features that all the expensive standalones have and more. The fuel and spark control runs on the same principals that SDS/Genboard/Haltec ect use except some have bigger tables. But seeing as how most motors dont rev to 9000 RPM's, 12x12 is more than enough.

I'm gonna run MSnS code and run the fuel only for the 12x12 fuel maps instead of the standard MS 8x8 map. Since my car has Mechanical injection the swap should be fairly simple. The Relay board really makes the wiring easier and The good part is it will run with my stock distributor ignition.

So it comes down to if you have half a brain and are willing to learn or if you wanna drop the extra cash for a pre made system that might not support data logging or laptop programming. I must also say the MS community is very very supportative of the whole system for any application. If you can name it chances are someone has put megasquirt in it.

Snafu
12-23-2004, 03:54 PM
Amen.

The only difficult thing with the current Megasquirt is hooking up the Megasquirt'n'spark. I've researched, but it gets a little complicated. Are you familiar with that setup?

Fox-N-It
12-23-2004, 05:47 PM
Amen.

The only difficult thing with the current Megasquirt is hooking up the Megasquirt'n'spark. I've researched, but it gets a little complicated. Are you familiar with that setup?

Yes i've read over it a few times and it is a little confusing. They do warn that if you can, you should try to get the fuel part of MS setup first then spark. When the time comes i'll probably go Ford EDIS. The hardest part probably is mounting the trigger wheel right.

ChrisD
12-23-2004, 09:56 PM
Is the megasquirt a piggyback computer? If it has no spark control, what is done to tune the timing maps? Do you need to retain the stock computer?

Never really researched it much...

Snafu
12-24-2004, 02:49 AM
Megasquirt is standalone. Most people just splice it into their exhisting harness, and have the megasquirt control fuel and the stock ecu control timing.

Weasy2k
12-24-2004, 05:50 AM
Is the megasquirt a piggyback computer? If it has no spark control, what is done to tune the timing maps? Do you need to retain the stock computer?

Never really researched it much...


As Snafu said it is a real EMS....with squirt n spark you can have it control the entire fuel and timing control and keep the stock ecu for other things if needed (like controling transmissions or other things)

It is a DIY system in which you build the actual processor board and by doing that costs you nearly nothing to have a fully running stand alone system...

Fox-N-It
12-24-2004, 10:22 PM
I will be assembling another unit in the comming days. I'll make a post with some pics of the making of the MS unit the relay board, mega view, and the stimulator. This unit will be installed in my Vw Fox. The next unit we build we be used with a 5SFTE though ;)

Weasy2k
12-25-2004, 08:08 AM
I will be assembling another unit in the comming days. I'll make a post with some pics of the making of the MS unit the relay board, mega view, and the stimulator. This unit will be installed in my Vw Fox. The next unit we build we be used with a 5SFTE though ;)


what motor you using (i was joking about VW being primative...i hate the CIS/ CIS-E systesm :P )

One of my buddys going with MS has a 2.0L16v stock transplanted to his rabbit GTI. Another is 2.0L Big 8V head with 29* cams...and last is another 2.0L 16v that has just been rebuilt and going turbo for his rocco.

Fox-N-It
12-25-2004, 08:15 AM
what motor you using (i was joking about VW being primative...i hate the CIS/ CIS-E systesm :P )

One of my buddys going with MS has a 2.0L16v stock transplanted to his rabbit GTI. Another is 2.0L Big 8V head with 29* cams...and last is another 2.0L 16v that has just been rebuilt and going turbo for his rocco.

Well my Fox has the 2.0L big 8V wiht a 276 and all the bolt on stuff. Ran a 15.65 on CIS-E Lean on the top end. This will be the first to get MS then the other project in the works is a 2.9L VR6T. 400whp on pump gas in an 87 GTI. A friends got a complete 5sfe motor sitting waiting for pauter rods, forged pistons, a turbo rebuild and hopefully over the summer that will be built and running MS as well.

ChrisD
12-25-2004, 11:10 PM
A "standalone" implies that it can operate without any other system needed to handle engine functions...IE it can stand alone, without the stock ECU.

The squirt and spark system is another story, and looks quite good.

Weasy2k
12-25-2004, 11:24 PM
Chris
It is considered a full out EMS system. THe MKI mr2 guys use it alot and so do a crapload of VW guys. It is not a plug and play system that will work with everything on todays mondern engines (yet!) but older engines that didnt rely on a bunch of electrical devices to run the car but instead the basic cam, crank, vss, IAT, tps, map sensors are all thats needed.

So in general standalone system = NO stock ecu.....well this doesnt need the stock ecu wheni mentioned you need the stock ecu to control a AUTO tranny wellt hat goes with a 2000 stand alone system as well unless it is one of the newest ones that have the ability to control EC Trannys. :)

Dirty
12-28-2004, 10:17 PM
I have the MS system Galcrazi, you saw it the day we were at the dyno in tampa. When I first got it installed back in May I put down 256fwhp @ 15psi with a failing turbo. I like it ... I have the Ford EDIS system with a cstom trigger wheel Ill take a pic of that and post it. :cool:

Fox-N-It
12-28-2004, 11:17 PM
I have the MS system Galcrazi, you saw it the day we were at the dyno in tampa. When I first got it installed back in May I put down 256fwhp @ 15psi with a failing turbo. I like it ... I have the Ford EDIS system with a cstom trigger wheel Ill take a pic of that and post it. :cool:

What motor if you dont mind me asking. Any chance we can get a fuel and timing map off you for future reference?

Dirty
12-29-2004, 02:07 AM
What motor if you dont mind me asking. Any chance we can get a fuel and timing map off you for future reference?
i got a 2nd Gen 3sgte 3inch dp and exhaust other stuff that i wont name right now..cause im getting off work and i need to get outta here.... as far as the maps go ..i dont have a laptop anymore...usually ryan at XAT tunes the MS...the last time i was there he changed the fuel map up a bit, Ill ask him if he still has the map saved.....