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View Full Version : advice on buying a 7th gen?



PhillyDRFT
10-04-2005, 05:35 AM
Hey everyone, Iím in the market for a new car and after being screwed over royally by the Subaru sales depot at my work. Iím thinking about buying a 7th gen . I donít want the fastest thing in the world but something reliable for now mostly a daily driver and possibly a bolt on turbo option in the future. (aiming for about 250whp?)

Iím looking in the range of a GT-S 6-speed.

were there any major differences in years between the 00 and 05's? i donít know much a bout the 2zz-ge. i used the search but our 7th gen forum is lacking a little lol. any advice would be great. Thanks guys.

Celicaguy13
10-04-2005, 06:47 AM
If your looking to turbo or modd more then just intake, header, and exhuast then you definately want to get a GT-S years 00-01, Because on the 00-01 the rev limiter is set at 7350 and on the 02's its set at 6800 I believe. Also I think toyota changed to "Drive by wire" in 03 I think so you wont be able to use a Apexi Power FC stand alone ecu for your turbo because of the drive by wire. Although the 03 models had the 7350 rev limit again but for the last time. The 04 and 05 both have Drive by wire and the 6800 limiter. I really dont know why it's not compatable with it but it isn't.

I dont think 02 was drive by wire yet but you should check to make sure. You can get a 02 and convert it so it revs to 7350, and you'll need the 00-01 ecu, and knock sensor.

Now as for the turbo goes, there is a really good company that makes kits and other things mainly for the zz engines. I'm just using their results as a example of what power you can expect from a GT and GT-S.

www.c2power.com

GT Stage 1~ 200-210 whp
GT Stage 2~ 280 whp
GT-S Stage 1~ 240-260 whp
GT-S Stage 2~ 300+ whp

In my opinion, you should get the GT-S because in case in the future you dont go turbo, you'll still have all that extra powr and who could forget about "LIFT!!!" Also I've been looking around and you could get a GT-S for the price of a GT in some places because they don't know how great the GT-S actually is. They're both reliable IMO. I didn't have any problems with mine and I had mine for over a year and a half.

As for power and 1/4 times. I only had a cheap 20$ ebay intake and a TRD exhaust and I hit 170whp with a slipping clutch, and I hit a 14.9 with the slipping clutch. Usually GT-S's with full I/H/E setups and good drivers can get low to mid 14's. And for the GT I dont know too much but I've read with just a I/H/E setup and good driver, they've been able to get around 15.2-15.4. But trust me.. You'll love a GT-S And LIFT! ;) good luck!

PhillyDRFT
10-04-2005, 02:25 PM
hey thanks a lot for the advice, i was under the impression from what people have told me that the 03's were less complicated to go for. im going to check out an 02 gt-s this week! haha im really excited thanks again

saved_1992
10-04-2005, 03:05 PM
get the vin and run a warranty check at a toyota dealer, you dont want to buy one that has had the motor or tranny replaced under goodwill warr.

Aracheon
10-04-2005, 05:54 PM
Having owned a 2000 GT-S... this is what I'd look for.

Definately try to get an 00 or 01. The rev limiter in those years is actually 8,350. It was dropped to 7800 in 02 because of all the misshifts that Toyota was stuck with repairing - mine included. The shift gates were also widened in 2002, making you throw your arm further to shift. Easily corrected with a short shifter, but it's something to think about.

Also, if you're considering a turbo option, I wouldn't buy a GT-S. The compression ratio in the 2ZZ is 11.5:1, which is unsafe and severely limits your boostabilty. The 1ZZ in the GT is at a slightly friendlier 10:1, which allows you more flexibility with how much boost you can safely run.

James D.
10-05-2005, 12:20 AM
remember...

2003 uses drive by wire but doesnt have the EGR yet
2004 - 2005 uses drive by wire and EGR

EGR meaning Exhaust Gas Recirculation, headers cannot be replaced on this coz there is non available.

everybody keeps forgetting the EGR on these models.

EGR - recirculates unburnt gas back to the intake manifold for emission control, a small pipe is connected to the headers and pump, recirculating exaust back to the intake manifold

2004 - 2005s rev limiter is 8200 rpm, tranny is improved compared to the previous years

James D.
10-05-2005, 12:21 AM
oh, im only talkin about the GTS, for turbo, go for the GT

PhillyDRFT
10-05-2005, 02:00 AM
yeah i read about the compression and i did figure the 10:1 would be much better but how much better are we talking. i dont want to make it too fast, a simple bolt on kit is fine with me plus i want the 6 speed instead of the 5.

i didnt know about the drive by wire. but i did read up on it, i dont like the way it sounds.

the gt never came in a 6speed did it? and what about the blitz supercharger for the gt-s and the turbo kits in development?

Edit: also what came to mind was the GE and FE blocks ... me atm being a 5th gen owner FE= BBAAADDDD. can the fe block hold boost well?

all of the turbo talk is for future refference incase i want to add a little more zip to it, it will mostly be my daily driver im not looking to sacrifice a lot of drivability nore am i trying to hit more than 250whp safely.

James D.
10-05-2005, 04:14 AM
Toyota engine codes are split into two sections, the bit before the dash, and the bit after it (eg: 2JZ-GTE).

Before the dash.
The letters signify the "family" or "series" of the engine. The numbers signify a revision of the bottom end (ie: bore, stoke, block). Higher numbers don't necessarily mean a larger block.
For example, the twin turbo engines in modern Supras are the 1JZ-GTE and 2JZ-GTE. The 1JZ is a 2.5L engine, while the 2JZ is a 3.0L. Both are twin turbo inline sixes.

After the dash.
The letters after the dash specify the features of the engine.
G - Wide angle Twin Cam (sportier head)
F - Narrow angle Twin Cam (economical head)
T - Turbocharged
Z - Supercharged
E - Electronic Fuel Injection
U - Emissions control (Japanese)
C - Emissions control (Californian).


Sample Engines And Their Codes
These are a few engines that can be found in our members' cars.
4A-GE: 1.6L DOHC EFI 16V inline four cylinder
4A-GE (20 Valve): 1.6L DOHC EFI 20V inline four cylinder
4A-GZE: 1.6L DOHC EFI 16V supercharged inline four cylinder
7A-FE: 1.8L DOHC EFI 16V inline four cylinder
1G-GTE: 2.0L DOHC EFI 24V intercooled twin turbo inline six cylinder
3/4K-C: 1.3L OHV Carby 8V inline four cylinder (4K block, 3K head)
5M-E: 2.8L SOHC EFI 12V inline six cylinder
7M-GTE: 3.0L DOHC EFI 24V turbocharged inline six cylinder
18R-C: 2.0L SOHC Carby 8V inline four cylinder
18R-GEU: 2.0L DOHC EFI 8V inline four cylinder
3S-GE / 3S-FE: 2.0L DOHC EFI 16V inline four cylinder
3S-GTE: 2.0L DOHC EFI 16V turbocharged inline four cylinder
2T-G: 1.6L DOHC 8V inline four cylinder


Article by:
Peter Luong
Max
Nark

anyways, GT is a 5 speed, GTS is a 6 speed, GT uses Lift cams while GT doesnt have it

James D.
10-05-2005, 04:15 AM
the lower the compression ratio the better you are boosting

Celicaguy13
10-05-2005, 05:55 AM
If your going to be spending money to turbo the 7th gen, you'd might as well get forged pistons and lower the compression because 11.5 and 10 is still pretty high for turbo. So I would personally go with the GT-S still because if you plan on getting custom pistons, you can lower it to whatever you want.

I've heard that the 04-05 have the 7800 rev limiter by a few that go test drive them. Well I guess this is news to me not sure then. I guess it's possible that when they test drove it, they didn't allow the engine to warm up thus setting the rev limiter lower automatically.

James D.
10-05-2005, 06:26 AM
nope, rev limiter is 8,200, lift will only work if the car is warmed up, if not warmed up then it will only rev till 6,200 rpm since this is the range where lift cams engage.

Celicaguy13
10-05-2005, 07:45 AM
that's right how could i forget it's at 6200 limit. I was driving with a bad thermostat for a couple of weeks that wouldnt let my car warm up at all so I had no lift. :( it depressed me when I couldn't beat a civic si because of it.

PhillyDRFT
10-05-2005, 02:57 PM
ok yeah i understand about the 10:1 compression but is 11.5:1 really that much worse? i dont want to put more than 9psi through it at most. the turbo kit would only be to give it a little more under the hood. Im planning an sr20 swap for my 240sx so i wont be relying on making my celi the fast car.

G - Wide angle Twin Cam (sportier head)
F - Narrow angle Twin Cam (economical head)

and that was what i ment about the FE and GE... wouldent the ge work well enough for a lower psi setup? because i wont be compressing 15+ psi and having larger intake and exhaust valves sounds to me like it would be able to get everything in and out faster than the FE head.

Edit: lol sorry im not trying to sound like a moron , im really trying to find the best of both worlds. ither 6speed or turbo lol i dont want to have to choose between the two

Celicaguy13
10-05-2005, 11:37 PM
just remember the differences between the 7th gen fe and ge heads are different from previous generations. GE heads have LIFT and FE's Don't.

Celicaguy13
10-05-2005, 11:41 PM
If your not planning on having your celica as a fast or "faster" car. I would just put the turbo money in your nissan project because in order to turbo the celica it would take about 5k just do so it on either GT or GTS with parts labor and tuning. But a GT-S will suit you very well for a daily driver. Just put I/H/E and clutch and its a good low 14 car.

James D.
10-05-2005, 11:52 PM
if you notice the celica GTS can rev to 8,000 RPM compared to the GT reving 6,700?(correct me if im wrong), most cars with turbos are low rpms, its also a factor yet turbo is all about preasure to the intake and exhaust, why its called forced induction.
The compression ratio is a single number that can be used to predict the performance of any internal-combustion engine. It is a ratio between the volume of a combustion chamber when the piston is at the bottom of its stroke, and the volume when the piston is at the top of its stroke. The higher the compression ratio, the more mechanical energy an engine can squeeze from its air-fuel mixture.(this is why the GTS can rev 8,200 rpms) Higher compression ratios, however, also make detonation more likely.

if you turbo the GTS and run at 7 psi, the more preasure you give the more detonation it will create, you can damage the internals pretty bad causing valves to bend, busted connecting rods, blow your head gasket etc etc. In order to lower compression, it requires replacement of internals, doing forged pistons etc etc

since the GT is 10:1 the compression is low enough to take the preasure of forced induction yet to a certain psi such as 7 to be on the safe side.

James D.
10-05-2005, 11:59 PM
Celicaguy13 is right, just spend the money on the SR20DET project

anyways, heres an i dea of what im talkin about

You are running 7 PSI of boost at an altitude of 4000 feet. Your motor's static compression is 11.5 :1. At this boost level and altitude your effective compression ratio is -16.18 :1, and without altitude correction your compression ratio would be 16.98 :1.

PhillyDRFT
10-06-2005, 12:33 AM
ok, that cleared a lot up for me, thanks a lot guys. i deff have a much better idea of what ill be looking for now. your help is greatly appriciated and i hope to be spending much more time in this end of the forum

Edit: sorry too i was also under the impression being that since the 7th gen has become a mainstream car there would be a lot more off the shelf options for the less mechanicly enclined and i could get a simple bolt on application because my sr20 project is 6 months into planning alone at this point.

Smaay
10-10-2005, 05:22 AM
ok first of all you guys need to spend more time on the FI section of newcelica.org....there are a ton of boosted celicas out there...the key to doing it is tuning...I pushed 9psi for months on my GT-S...

Celicaguy13
10-10-2005, 08:20 AM
ok first of all you guys need to spend more time on the FI section of newcelica.org....there are a ton of boosted celicas out there...the key to doing it is tuning...I pushed 9psi for months on my GT-S...

I use to spend most of my time in the FI section at newcelica.org. I'm still a big fan of the site but since I dont have my 7th gen anymore, I dont really visit that much anymore but still do sometimes. We never said that its not possible to turbo a GT-S. I know because I did months of research because I was about to buy my kit but got in the accident. And with any kind of upgrades the obvious key is always "tuning".

Rix86
11-02-2005, 07:03 AM
the "c" is NOT california emmisions, it is north american emissions.
IE 4agec is all the ae86 got. the "c" was around before california got their new emission laws.
And if you do decide on buying one... look for vin stickers on the body panels. if the body panels have been replaced and/or stripped down for crash repair the stickers will be gone in most cases. (99%)
if the engine was replaced under goodwill warranty, all the better! New engine, how could that be bad? same with trans.
the newer ones have an air pump.
variable valve timing makes egr obsolete. increasing valve overlap with the vvt(l)i leaves some of the unburnt gasses in the combustion chamber... acheiving the same thing as egr.
the deal with the header availability is the fitting for the air pump to inject air into the exhaust on cold starts.